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Christina Salazar → Ralph S. Baric, Harry Kazenoff, David T. Lambeth III, William Henderson
Okay, thank you. I appreciate that. Okay. We'll go off the record. We're going to take a break. We will move. You will be read in, and then we will go back on the record. [Whereas, at 12:04 p.m., the unclassified interview was concluded.] Interview with Dr. Ralph Baric - April 10, 2026 Committee
Baric Transcribed Interview (Redacted), pp.140-155 proximal_originlab_leak_originmolecular_features
David T. Lambeth III → Ralph S. Baric, Christina Salazar, Harry Kazenoff, William Henderson
Just one thing before we go off the record. We did check UNC's records and there is no record of Autonomous Therapeutics funding the Baric Lab.
Baric Transcribed Interview (Redacted), p.140
Christina Salazar → Ralph S. Baric, Harry Kazenoff, David T. Lambeth III, William Henderson
Yeah.
Baric Transcribed Interview (Redacted), p.140
David T. Lambeth III → Ralph S. Baric, Christina Salazar, Harry Kazenoff, William Henderson
Are we about to go off?
Baric Transcribed Interview (Redacted), p.140
Christina Salazar → Ralph S. Baric, Harry Kazenoff, David T. Lambeth III, William Henderson
Okay.
Baric Transcribed Interview (Redacted), p.140
Ralph S. Baric → Christina Salazar, Harry Kazenoff, David T. Lambeth III, William Henderson
So they may have sequences of those viruses, and then you might say, eureka, those are the SARS-2 strains, but they didn't transmit. They were super virulent, and they did not transmit. So they might have things in there that they feel are very sensitive, and their government may feel that are very
Baric Transcribed Interview (Redacted), pp.139-140
Christina Salazar → Ralph S. Baric, Harry Kazenoff, David T. Lambeth III, William Henderson
Probably.
Baric Transcribed Interview (Redacted), p.139
Ralph S. Baric → Christina Salazar, Harry Kazenoff, David T. Lambeth III, William Henderson
They may not have published them. But the important thing for the U.S. government to realize is they are as good as us in recombinant DNA technology. It is no longer the U.S. is massively in the lead. So their deep sequencing capability is second to none. Their capacity to sequence at least some of
Baric Transcribed Interview (Redacted), p.139
Christina Salazar → Ralph S. Baric, Harry Kazenoff, David T. Lambeth III, William Henderson
And it went down before, right? I can't remember.
Baric Transcribed Interview (Redacted), p.139
Ralph S. Baric → Christina Salazar, Harry Kazenoff, David T. Lambeth III, William Henderson
I mean, if they really wanted to conclusively demonstrate that the virus did not come out of the laboratory, they could have made that available. The problem is for example, is they may have things in there that they don't want to share, and the immediate thing that comes to mind is the Mojiang mine
Baric Transcribed Interview (Redacted), pp.138-139
Christina Salazar → Ralph S. Baric, Harry Kazenoff, David T. Lambeth III, William Henderson
And one last question before we have to break. Do you find it odd that the WIV database went down when it did?
Baric Transcribed Interview (Redacted), p.138 wiv_collaboration
Ralph S. Baric → Christina Salazar, Harry Kazenoff, David T. Lambeth III, William Henderson
Yeah. They had a molecular clone. They've dropped different spike genes in it. So it's the question of basically, I don't know, I'd have to look at the S1/S2 junction. But it would be three or four amino acids that they'd have to drop in. They certainly would have that technology.
Baric Transcribed Interview (Redacted), p.138
Christina Salazar → Ralph S. Baric, Harry Kazenoff, David T. Lambeth III, William Henderson
So they couldn't have.
Baric Transcribed Interview (Redacted), p.138
Ralph S. Baric → Christina Salazar, Harry Kazenoff, David T. Lambeth III, William Henderson
I mean, they had the molecular clone.
Baric Transcribed Interview (Redacted), p.138
Christina Salazar → Ralph S. Baric, Harry Kazenoff, David T. Lambeth III, William Henderson
Okay.
Baric Transcribed Interview (Redacted), p.138
Ralph S. Baric → Christina Salazar, Harry Kazenoff, David T. Lambeth III, William Henderson
With WIV1, absolutely.
Baric Transcribed Interview (Redacted), p.138 wiv_collaboration
Christina Salazar → Ralph S. Baric, Harry Kazenoff, David T. Lambeth III, William Henderson
Okay. Do you think that Dr. Shi and WIV had the technical capability of doing the work proposed in DEFUSE on their own?
Baric Transcribed Interview (Redacted), p.138 ecohealth_fundingwiv_collaboration
Ralph S. Baric → Christina Salazar, Harry Kazenoff, David T. Lambeth III, William Henderson
Maybe two and a half years ago.
Baric Transcribed Interview (Redacted), p.138
Christina Salazar → Ralph S. Baric, Harry Kazenoff, David T. Lambeth III, William Henderson
Okay. And when did you isolate it? DC.Scheduling@LexitasLegal.com
Baric Transcribed Interview (Redacted), pp.137-138
Ralph S. Baric → Christina Salazar, Harry Kazenoff, David T. Lambeth III, William Henderson
Just to let you know, we have ordered a molecular clone for RaTG13. That genome is heavily debilitated. We eventually isolated it. We have not finished submitting the paper.
Baric Transcribed Interview (Redacted), p.137
Christina Salazar → Ralph S. Baric, Harry Kazenoff, David T. Lambeth III, William Henderson
Okay.
Baric Transcribed Interview (Redacted), p.137
Ralph S. Baric → Christina Salazar, Harry Kazenoff, David T. Lambeth III, William Henderson
You can pull it off, yeah. I don't believe we have ever, no. I mean, why would we? We were using public sequences to build viruses. It's not like we were doing this de novo.
Baric Transcribed Interview (Redacted), p.137
Christina Salazar → Ralph S. Baric, Harry Kazenoff, David T. Lambeth III, William Henderson
And I had asked you if you had ever not published something. So that's part of what happened in this case. I understand it was partially uploaded and then it was under embargo. So have you ever had a sequence or something under embargo that then you withdrew? I just want to make sure that my initial
Baric Transcribed Interview (Redacted), p.137 media_messaging
Ralph S. Baric → Christina Salazar, Harry Kazenoff, David T. Lambeth III, William Henderson
No. Yeah, so that was first published in 2013 as a sequence fragment, that I didn't notice. And then they came out with a sequence, I think, in, what, 2017, 2018, somewhere around there. It did not catch my notice. I mean, oftentimes, every once in a while we do searches on sequences, to see if ther
Baric Transcribed Interview (Redacted), pp.136-137 molecular_features
Christina Salazar → Ralph S. Baric, Harry Kazenoff, David T. Lambeth III, William Henderson
Did you have a copy of RaTG, the genome before 2020?
Baric Transcribed Interview (Redacted), p.136