COVID-19 Records

Private channel session 1046

52 messages over 1h 31m, 2021-03-01 – 2021-03-01.

A “conversation” here is an activity session — a run of messages with under 60 minutes of silence inside it. The channel had no native conversation boundaries.

  1. 2021-03-01 14:23 Andrew Rambaut open PDF p.556
    This is utterly awful: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00525-x How to insult just about everyone, not cite any work done previously.
  2. 2021-03-01 14:29 Edward C. Holmes open PDF p.556
    Agreed! I pulled my name off.
  3. 2021-03-01 14:29 Kristian G. Andersen open PDF p.557
    Holy crap. Especially love this paragraph [shared file(s): Screen Shot 2021-03-01 at 14.25.52.png]
  4. 2021-03-01 14:30 Kristian G. Andersen open PDF p.557
    "... many of them early in their careers, who cobble together software and analytical tools in their own time to findessential answers" - Andrew, I assume that's you. Sorry, buddy. :face_with_rolling_eyes:
  5. 2021-03-01 14:30 Edward C. Holmes open PDF p.557
    It was really insulting to so many people!!!
  6. 2021-03-01 14:31 Kristian G. Andersen open PDF p.557
    This part is just unbelievable - "The Twitter thread became a key source of information on the new variant, and E.B.H.'s Christmas break was lost to crunching further sequences and briefing journalists". I'm glad she thinks sohighly of herself. I'm gonna give myself a prize too - I'm going to call it The Kristian Prize.
  7. 2021-03-01 14:31 Kristian G. Andersen open PDF p.557
    Of course - none of these people have sequenced anything....
  8. 2021-03-01 14:31 Kristian G. Andersen open PDF p.557
    (or shared data)
  9. 2021-03-01 14:31 Edward C. Holmes open PDF p.557
    The original version of the paper was fine. It then degenerated into this...I told them multiple times that the focus onEmma was completely inappropriate.
  10. 2021-03-01 14:31 Andrew Rambaut open PDF p.557
    And she thinks her Christmas break was ruined -
  11. 2021-03-01 14:32 Edward C. Holmes open PDF p.557
    Exactly!!
  12. 2021-03-01 14:32 Kristian G. Andersen open PDF p.557
    Well, at least she didn't die from COVID-19 or had to take care of patients with COVID-19, so there's a silver lining...Unreal.
  13. 2021-03-01 14:33 Edward C. Holmes open PDF p.557
    Would be quite good if you Tweeted this:stuck_out_tongue:
  14. 2021-03-01 14:33 Kristian G. Andersen open PDF p.557
    "Christmas break was lost to crunching further sequences and briefing journalists".
  15. 2021-03-01 14:33 Kristian G. Andersen open PDF p.558
    So, so, so sorry for her.
  16. 2021-03-01 14:35 Andrew Rambaut open PDF p.558
    I am so livid. But I can't say anything as Emma is a former student. Someone needs to call this out. I can't believe the limited set of citations too - Franky Bollocks'' paper? FFS.
  17. 2021-03-01 14:35 Kristian G. Andersen open PDF p.558
    Yeah - this really should be called out. Some of the worst I have read. What the heck went wrong here? Or are these people just so full of themselves by now that this seems ok?
  18. 2021-03-01 14:36 Andrew Rambaut open PDF p.558
    ```The 'phylogenetic' tools used to track these variants were largely developed by evolutionary biologists to study the lineage of organisms. They were designed to construct phylogenetic trees that can ask, for example, whether flightevolved twice in mammals, or whether two large groups of bats began as one that then diverged.Now, co-opted to track a pandemic, the leaves of the phylogenetic tree represent SARS-CoV-2 sequences taken from individuals, and the tree grows with the number of cases ```Now co-opted?
  19. 2021-03-01 14:37 Kristian G. Andersen open PDF p.558
    Haha - "whether flight evolved twice in mammals"
  20. 2021-03-01 14:37 Edward C. Holmes open PDF p.558
    Here are some of my emails: [shared file(s): Screen Shot 2021-03-02 at 9.36.14 am.png]
  21. 2021-03-01 14:37 Kristian G. Andersen open PDF p.558
    The best example they could come up with.
  22. 2021-03-01 14:38 Edward C. Holmes open PDF p.558
    And another. This is like a freedom of information act request: [shared file(s): Screen Shot 2021-03-02 at 9.38.02am.png]
  23. 2021-03-01 14:39 Edward C. Holmes open PDF p.558
    The whole thing is complete and embarrassing shit.
  24. 2021-03-01 14:39 Kristian G. Andersen open PDF p.558
    "We will *for sure* address this". Sure. Great emails Eddie - this is embarrassing beyond belief - in Nature, no less.
  25. 2021-03-01 14:41 Edward C. Holmes open PDF p.558
    They were so transfixed on getting it into Nature that they didn't see what they were doing.
  26. 2021-03-01 14:41 Kristian G. Andersen open PDF p.558
    And good choice taking yourself off the paper - I did the same on Charles' paper too because he wouldn't listen tosense either. Some scientists are so full of themselves by now - but this has to be the worst example I have seen.
  27. 2021-03-01 14:50 Edward C. Holmes open PDF p.559
    Just so my emails make sense, the text that I am commenting on stated that UK govt policy was based on Emma's tweet. At the very least the corresponding authors need to be told this is insulting.
  28. 2021-03-01 14:52 Andrew Rambaut open PDF p.559
    Yeah - we wrote a report which went in to the SoS
  29. 2021-03-01 14:55 Andrew Rambaut open PDF p.559
    Then technical notes went to WHO and other governments.
  30. 2021-03-01 14:57 Edward C. Holmes open PDF p.559
    This should be pointed out. I'm very disappointed with Nick Goldman as he tried to defend all this. I got my name removed from the Email chains.
  31. 2021-03-01 14:58 Kristian G. Andersen open PDF p.559
    Too harsh? [shared file(s): Screen Shot 2021-03-01 at 14.58.38.png]
  32. 2021-03-01 14:59 Kristian G. Andersen open PDF p.559
    (not posted yet)
  33. 2021-03-01 15:00 Edward C. Holmes open PDF p.559
    Nope
  34. 2021-03-01 15:00 Andrew Rambaut open PDF p.559
    I am not sure 'misrepresents' more than completely ignores.
  35. 2021-03-01 15:00 Kristian G. Andersen open PDF p.559
    "Ignores" - better.
  36. 2021-03-01 15:01 Edward C. Holmes open PDF p.559
    Yes indeed
  37. 2021-03-01 15:04 Andrew Rambaut open PDF p.559
    I can just imagine the cringy reply about how everyone worked super hard.
  38. 2021-03-01 15:05 Kristian G. Andersen open PDF p.559
    Hah - there's no going back from this other than a full retraction. This is embarrassing beyond belief.
  39. 2021-03-01 15:09 Edward C. Holmes open PDF p.559
    It is indeed a total disaster. The original version was a technical piece about issues in phylogenetic analysis. It was fine. The Editor then completely rewrote it into this shit. But all that stuff about Emma saving the world came from the paper authors. That was embarrassing and misleading. It also totally over-hyped the issues. Rob Lanfear saidhe agreed with my concerns but still decided to be an author!
  40. 2021-03-01 15:11 Kristian G. Andersen open PDF p.560
    One very important question the authors need to ask themselves - would they have been authors if this had been for, say, Nature Microbiology and not Nature?
  41. 2021-03-01 15:12 Kristian G. Andersen open PDF p.560
    Charles trying to convince me to stay on his paper made it very clear that he had been talking directly to NEJM and Cell and that they both wanted it - this should _never_ be a consideration when it comes to sloppy science. Orwhatever-the-fuck this is. Just horrible.
  42. 2021-03-01 15:13 Edward C. Holmes open PDF p.560
    The reaction to their paper is EXACTLY what I told them would happen. They were warned!!
  43. 2021-03-01 15:23 Andrew Rambaut open PDF p.560
    There we go. As predicted: [shared file(s): image.png]
  44. 2021-03-01 15:23 Andrew Rambaut open PDF p.560
    "exactly what we were trying to avoid"
  45. 2021-03-01 15:27 Edward C. Holmes open PDF p.560
    That's total BS!!! You saw my emails.
  46. 2021-03-01 15:31 Edward C. Holmes open PDF p.560
    If they wanted to avoid these issues they would removed all the personal stuff.
  47. 2021-03-01 15:32 Kristian G. Andersen open PDF p.560
    And this is directly insulting to me - this isn't about fucking me man! [shared file(s): Screen Shot 2021-03-01 at15.31.21.png]
  48. 2021-03-01 15:37 Edward C. Holmes open PDF p.560
    I've just written to Rob.
  49. 2021-03-01 15:40 Robert F. Garry open PDF p.560
    Jeez - just got back from a long lecture - may have started out with good intentions, but wow so off base. "And good choice taking yourself off the paper" INDEED! Safe to say Rob didn't get the point....
  50. 2021-03-01 15:46 Andrew Rambaut open PDF p.560
    Just written to Emma. Don't want to pile on these people - it is Nick and Christophe who should be responsible.
  51. 2021-03-01 15:50 Edward C. Holmes open PDF p.560
    Nick & Christophe are indeed the main culprits although Emma did nothing to change what was written about her.
  52. 2021-03-01 15:54 Edward C. Holmes open PDF p.561
    And Rob's Twitter response is just untrue. We even had a bloody email chat about these concerns!!