Chat message

Slack / Private Message Drop, p.293 [SLACK_000507] · slack_pm:msg:03053

Date: 2020-12-04 09:12
Type: chat message · slack
recipient: Kristian G. Andersen, Edward C. Holmes, Andrew Rambaut
speaker: Robert F. Garry
Topics: Vaccines

Recipients on this medium are inferred from channel membership, not per-message addressing.

GOOD! A major question that randomized "wild" trials will struggle to answer is whether vaccinees still produce enough virus to remain infectious if exposed. Contrary to what I thought would be the case we found at Tulane that virus load had very little impact on whether or not a student was a "spreader." There was not complete sterilizingimmunity in the NHP challenge trials AFAIK. So, you could have a situation where vaccinees are protected against serious disease, but are still able to transmit the virus to some degree.

Extracted statements

Rule-extracted, not adjudicated. The grade says what may be done with each one; read the document above before relying on any of them.

Statement	Grade	Attribution	Stance
A major question that randomized "wild" trials will struggle to answer is whether vaccinees still produce enough virus to remain infectious if exposed.	quoted / not their view	quoted_external sentence carries quotation marks	asserts
So, you could have a situation where vaccinees are protected against serious disease, but are still able to transmit the virus to some degree.	quoted / not their view	hypothetical conditional framing	asserts

Statement

Grade

Attribution

Stance

A major question that randomized "wild" trials will struggle to answer is whether vaccinees still produce enough virus to remain infectious if exposed.

quoted / not their view

quoted_external sentence carries quotation marks

asserts

So, you could have a situation where vaccinees are protected against serious disease, but are still able to transmit the virus to some degree.

quoted / not their view

hypothetical conditional framing

asserts

In context

A single line often inverts meaning once you see what it answers, so neighbouring messages are always shown.

2020-12-04 07:49 Robert F. Garry open

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/12/04/vaccine-ethics-does-continuing-covid-19-trials-put-volunteers-risk/6473436002/ This was one reason I advocated for human challenge trials - those in the placebo arm remain "sitting ducks."
2020-12-04 08:28 Andrew Rambaut open

The Wellcome Trust is funding a challenge trial. They have manufactured the virus. I don't which vaccines they intend to use.
2020-12-04 09:12 Robert F. Garry

GOOD! A major question that randomized "wild" trials will struggle to answer is whether vaccinees still produce enough virus to remain infectious if exposed. Contrary to what I thought would be the case we found at Tulane that virus load had very little impact on whether or not a student was a "spreader." There was not complete sterilizingimmunity in the NHP challenge trials AFAIK. So, you could have a situation where vaccinees are protected against serious disease, but are still able to transmit the virus to some degree.
2020-12-04 09:17 Kristian G. Andersen open

Damn IgA vs IgG! As for sterilizing immunity - the animal trials for both the J&J and RNA vaccines were promising on this aspect -the Oxford vaccine, not at all.
2020-12-04 09:18 Andrew Rambaut open

But the RNA vaccines may recombine with your viruses and integrate into your genome and all sorts of things.
2020-12-04 09:20 Kristian G. Andersen open

... and lead to sterilization. Which may not be a bad thing.

Full conversation →