Transcript segment

Baric Transcribed Interview (Redacted), pp.28-29 · baric_ti:utt:00162

Date: 2026-04-10 09:00 (day precision)
Type: transcript segment · interview
recipient: Christina Salazar, Harry Kazenoff, David T. Lambeth III, William Henderson, Clark Ervin, Jake Greenberg
speaker: Ralph S. Baric
Topics: Gain-of-function research Intelligence community assessments

Well, Fauci was present for about 5 to 10 minutes max. He got called away for a phone call in a SCIF, and so he left pretty early in the meeting. There was some basic discussion about the new virus. Ultimately, they got to, I think, what they really wanted to talk about was gain-of-function related experiments, or I think it should be potential gain-of-function related experiments, that were associated with this 2015 and 2016 paper. I was a little surprised that they didn't seem to have the paperwork that was involved in my presentation on why I thought this might be more of a loss-of-function than a gain-of-function phenotype. And so then I think a day or so later I sent them all those documents. DC.Scheduling@LexitasLegal.com

Extracted statements

Rule-extracted, not adjudicated. The grade says what may be done with each one; read the document above before relying on any of them.

Statement	Grade	Attribution	Stance
Ultimately, they got to, I think, what they really wanted to talk about was gain-of-function related experiments, or I think it should be potential gain-of-function related experiments, that were associated with this 2015 and 2016 paper.	needs context	uncertain explicit hedge	asserts
I was a little surprised that they didn't seem to have the paperwork that was involved in my presentation on why I thought this might be more of a loss-of-function than a gain-of-function phenotype.	needs context	uncertain explicit hedge	asserts

Statement

Grade

Attribution

Stance

Ultimately, they got to, I think, what they really wanted to talk about was gain-of-function related experiments, or I think it should be potential gain-of-function related experiments, that were associated with this 2015 and 2016 paper.

needs context

uncertain explicit hedge

asserts

I was a little surprised that they didn't seem to have the paperwork that was involved in my presentation on why I thought this might be more of a loss-of-function than a gain-of-function phenotype.

needs context

uncertain explicit hedge

asserts

In context

A single line often inverts meaning once you see what it answers, so neighbouring messages are always shown.

2026-04-10 09:00 Ralph S. Baric open

The first part, absolutely. I don't DC.Scheduling@LexitasLegal.com recall much in the discussion of the slowness of the P3CO process. But if it says it in the email then at some point they may have wanted to discuss that. I don't know. Was that something that I said?
2026-04-10 09:00 Christina Salazar open

No, it wasn't. But in the agenda items that we've seen from other officials, that's the agenda that was on there. But from your House testimony it sounded like that wasn't necessarily what was discussed.
2026-04-10 09:00 Ralph S. Baric open

I don't recall that part being in the House, so I think the House testimony is actually accurate.
2026-04-10 09:00 Christina Salazar open

So can you let us know what you all talked about and who was present?
2026-04-10 09:00 Ralph S. Baric

Well, Fauci was present for about 5 to 10 minutes max. He got called away for a phone call in a SCIF, and so he left pretty early in the meeting. There was some basic discussion about the new virus. Ultimately, they got to, I think, what they really wanted to talk about was gain-of-function related experiments, or I think it should be potential gain-of-function related experiments, that were associated with this 2015 and 2016 paper. I was a little surprised that they didn't seem to have the paperwork that was involved in my presentation on why I thought this might be more of a loss-of-function than a gain-of-function phenotype. And so then I think a day or so later I sent them all those documents. DC.Scheduling@LexitasLegal.com
2026-04-10 09:00 Christina Salazar open

So they just didn't have them?
2026-04-10 09:00 Ralph S. Baric open

I don't know. They seemed surprised to me.
2026-04-10 09:00 Christina Salazar open

Surprised about --
2026-04-10 09:00 Ralph S. Baric open

They seemed uncertain, not surprised. "Uncertain" would be the better word, about the status of these documents, which surprised me.

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