Chat message

Slack / Private Message Drop, pp.679-680 [SLACK_000893] · slack_pm:msg:07125

Date: 2021-04-05 20:02
Type: chat message · slack
recipient: Kristian G. Andersen, Robert F. Garry, Andrew Rambaut
speaker: Edward C. Holmes
Topics: Natural origin / zoonotic spillover China relations and data access WHO and international investigation

Recipients on this medium are inferred from channel membership, not per-message addressing.

I've been following the wildlife farms part of this from the start [and before that on other stories]. It does not appear there was much of an effort to check captive bred wildlife facilities. 31 farms in Hubei, with about 3,000 animals, were checked. 27,000 sample from "wildlife" across China, but a large part of that appears to be zoo animals if you check the annexes. There's one prefecture with about four counties in it in Western Hubei that had 290 farms and450,000 animals alone at the start of the outbreak. Why would Chinese authorities not check more farms but prepared to shut down so many of them [on the raising for meat consumption side]? Anyone here you think would beable to address that? I'm also confused by the WHO report from November which said their were live wild mammals present at the market prior to Dec. 31, 2019 and the latest study team report which takes the market authority and one Huanan manager'sword for it that there were no live wild mammals at the market at that time. The people who owned Huanan market owned a much larger market in Huangpi, offering similar products. I've not been given a satisfactory answer why this market wasn't investigated. The owner of the Huanan market and this other market himself is quite problematic from a potential wildlifetrafficking perspective, but I can't say much about what I know there at the moment. Just curious if you'd heard anything at all about the ultimate owner [his daughter runs the market, but he owns it]. They were there when the WHO team was there at Huanan, but apparently no one talked to them. Got to get my kids to school. Happy to talk more if you are open to it.Best, SLACK_000894 Michael Michael Standaert(imShenzhen, China

Extracted statements

Rule-extracted, not adjudicated. The grade says what may be done with each one; read the document above before relying on any of them.

Statement	Grade	Attribution	Stance
Why would Chinese authorities not check more farms but prepared to shut down so many of them [on the raising for meat consumption side]?	needs context	speaker_own	questions
I'm also confused by the WHO report from November which said their were live wild mammals present at the market prior to Dec. 31, 2019 and the latest study team report which takes the market authority and one Huanan manager'sword for it that there were no live wild mammals at the market at that time.	own voice, substantive	speaker_own	asserts
The owner of the Huanan market and this other market himself is quite problematic from a potential wildlifetrafficking perspective, but I can't say much about what I know there at the moment.	own voice, substantive	speaker_own	asserts
They were there when the WHO team was there at Huanan, but apparently no one talked to them.	own voice, substantive	speaker_own	asserts

Statement

Grade

Attribution

Stance

Why would Chinese authorities not check more farms but prepared to shut down so many of them [on the raising for meat consumption side]?

needs context

speaker_own

questions

I'm also confused by the WHO report from November which said their were live wild mammals present at the market prior to Dec. 31, 2019 and the latest study team report which takes the market authority and one Huanan manager'sword for it that there were no live wild mammals at the market at that time.

own voice, substantive

speaker_own

asserts

The owner of the Huanan market and this other market himself is quite problematic from a potential wildlifetrafficking perspective, but I can't say much about what I know there at the moment.

own voice, substantive

speaker_own

asserts

They were there when the WHO team was there at Huanan, but apparently no one talked to them.

own voice, substantive

speaker_own

asserts

In context

A single line often inverts meaning once you see what it answers, so neighbouring messages are always shown.

2021-04-05 19:18 Robert F. Garry open

Brilliant Eddie - Well done!
2021-04-05 19:41 Edward C. Holmes open

He did a good job. Of course, I meant to say that I might NOT be allowed back into China...
2021-04-05 20:02 Edward C. Holmes open

Got this from another journo....very interesting:
2021-04-05 20:02 Edward C. Holmes

I've been following the wildlife farms part of this from the start [and before that on other stories]. It does not appear there was much of an effort to check captive bred wildlife facilities. 31 farms in Hubei, with about 3,000 animals, were checked. 27,000 sample from "wildlife" across China, but a large part of that appears to be zoo animals if you check the annexes. There's one prefecture with about four counties in it in Western Hubei that had 290 farms and450,000 animals alone at the start of the outbreak. Why would Chinese authorities not check more farms but prepared to shut down so many of them [on the raising for meat consumption side]? Anyone here you think would beable to address that? I'm also confused by the WHO report from November which said their were live wild mammals present at the market prior to Dec. 31, 2019 and the latest study team report which takes the market authority and one Huanan manager'sword for it that there were no live wild mammals at the market at that time. The people who owned Huanan market owned a much larger market in Huangpi, offering similar products. I've not been given a satisfactory answer why this market wasn't investigated. The owner of the Huanan market and this other market himself is quite problematic from a potential wildlifetrafficking perspective, but I can't say much about what I know there at the moment. Just curious if you'd heard anything at all about the ultimate owner [his daughter runs the market, but he owns it]. They were there when the WHO team was there at Huanan, but apparently no one talked to them. Got to get my kids to school. Happy to talk more if you are open to it.Best, SLACK_000894 Michael Michael Standaert(imShenzhen, China
2021-04-05 20:02 Kristian G. Andersen open

Yeah, this is very interesting. I do think there's a lot missing from the "market" aspect of this whole story - did they ordid they not have live mammals? Where exactly were animals sourced from? Were all those farms tested?
2021-04-05 20:02 Edward C. Holmes open

I wouldn't be at all surprised if they've already found out exactly there this virus comes from.
2021-04-05 20:02 Kristian G. Andersen open

I wouldn't be surprised if they have some very strong clues... But whether they have fully nailed it, I'm not so sure. I'm pretty convinced the obfuscation has to do with this though - they could care less about a lab leak, but if this is aresult of wildlife farming and borderline illegal activities, then that's a problem domestically and internationally.
2021-04-05 20:02 Edward C. Holmes open

Exactly! I couldn't agree more.

Full conversation →