COVID-19 Records

Private channel session 926

36 messages over 2h 53m, 2021-02-05 – 2021-02-05.

A “conversation” here is an activity session — a run of messages with under 60 minutes of silence inside it. The channel had no native conversation boundaries.

  1. 2021-02-05 12:27 Kristian G. Andersen open PDF p.483
    @Andrew Rambaut - do you happen to have some good curated ccCoV genomic datasets?
  2. 2021-02-05 12:28 Kristian G. Andersen open PDF p.484
    I'm getting a lot of "have we reached peak fitness" (I doubt it) questions, so I'd like to get a sense of where weactually are in the cc world. I assume "peak fitness" is dominated by a bunch of local maxima - not a single big hill toclimb.
  3. 2021-02-05 12:30 Edward C. Holmes open PDF p.484
    The sequence was submitted to GenBank on the 5th - the day it was sequenced - before the paper was written. The embargo is a standard - hold until publication clause. The data was sent to the Ministry of Health on that day. Zhang also told them that it was a human respiratory pathogen. I wanted to release the sequence on that day as well butwe could not because China had imposed a gag order on the 3rd. We submitted the paper on the 7th. We very quickly heard from a reviewer that they thought it was a good idea to release the sequence as did the editor. I was trying to get Zhang to do it but he was under pressure. After Jeremy's tweet I contacted Jeremy and told him the story, although I think he was really referring to George. He said it had to be released by the Monday. So, I tried again with Zhang and he agreed. The GenBank sequence was released on the 12th. He did put his neck on the line and he did get into serious trouble. Things got so bad that I told him a few times that we should just withdraw the paper just to save him. There's nothing new here and I've explained this - including Jeremy's tweet - to get press many times. If she wants to moan it should be to the China CDC who had the data earlier and did nothing.
  4. 2021-02-05 12:33 Robert F. Garry open PDF p.484
    Thank Eddie - And, of course, Virological release was earlier than GenBank.
  5. 2021-02-05 12:33 Andrew Rambaut open PDF p.484
    And Gisaid despite what Bogner claims.
  6. 2021-02-05 12:34 Robert F. Garry open PDF p.484
    A little while back I think we discussed that Ct values for G614 are lower than for D614. B117 still lower, but does anyone have Ct data for B.1.351 and P.1?
  7. 2021-02-05 12:44 Edward C. Holmes open PDF p.484
    Exactly. Virological seemed the best way to get it out and Andrew and I had discussed that option already. The GISAID option never crossed my mind. To me, the key thing is that Zhang told the Ministry of Health exactly what itis was on the 5th, that it was likely a human respiratory pathogen, and that people should take precautions. That was the key info. But 100s of health care workers were infected by the time they finally admitted human-to-human transmission some weeks later. That's the true scandal.
  8. 2021-02-05 12:52 Kristian G. Andersen open PDF p.484
    Oh, I missed this beauty from the Science Police. [shared file(s): Screen Shot 2021-02-05 at 12.50.04.png]
  9. 2021-02-05 12:54 Edward C. Holmes open PDF p.484
    I think he's talking about his own work at the end.
  10. 2021-02-05 12:56 Edward C. Holmes open PDF p.484
    No, the reviewer did review the paper but also said it was a good idea to release the sequence.
  11. 2021-02-05 13:02 Andrew Rambaut open PDF p.484
    @Andrew Rambaut i think it was George's paper in that case.
  12. 2021-02-05 13:04 Andrew Rambaut open PDF p.485
    @Andrew Rambaut I should email you about this so you can lay it all out for for a future FoI.
  13. 2021-02-05 13:05 Andrew Rambaut open PDF p.485
    @Andrew Rambaut "Eddie, can you just remind me what really happened?"
  14. 2021-02-05 13:08 Edward C. Holmes open PDF p.485
    @Andrew Rambaut Fortunately Zhang does not like to use email
  15. 2021-02-05 13:13 Robert F. Garry open PDF p.485
    @Andrew Rambaut This timeline needs to be public (to the extent that it isn't already). Agree that the No H2H transmission BS cost lives. So did the this is not an airborne virus BS, but that is another story.
  16. 2021-02-05 13:13 Robert F. Garry open PDF p.485
    @Andrew Rambaut FOIA - a doubled edged sword....
  17. 2021-02-05 13:20 Edward C. Holmes open PDF p.485
    @Andrew Rambaut I've explained all this a number of times. I think that BBC doco covers a lot of this.
  18. 2021-02-05 13:44 Robert F. Garry open PDF p.485
    @Andrew Rambaut Indeed, so tiresome. The way they twist the story is yet more evidence that the "Science Police" force is highly corrupt.
  19. 2021-02-05 13:53 Edward C. Holmes open PDF p.485
    @Andrew Rambaut I'm just treating all this as background noise to be ignored. I never look at these people on Twitter and I bet there are others we don't even know about.
  20. 2021-02-05 14:00 Robert F. Garry open PDF p.485
    @Andrew Rambaut YOU are a wise man Eddie!
  21. 2021-02-05 14:38 Edward C. Holmes open PDF p.485
    Found this one from Jan 5th. Somewhat prescient. I wouldn't mind this being released in a freedom of information act: [shared file(s): Screen Shot 2021-02-06 at 9.36.10 am.png]
  22. 2021-02-05 14:38 Kristian G. Andersen open PDF p.486
    "very bad". No shit.
  23. 2021-02-05 14:40 Edward C. Holmes open PDF p.486
    I don't think they even accepted human-to-human transmission until about Jan 22nd.
  24. 2021-02-05 14:42 Robert F. Garry open PDF p.486
    This is amazing - On another note - I uploaded a leaner version of the bat CoV post. Much more subtle.
  25. 2021-02-05 14:43 Edward C. Holmes open PDF p.486
    Great, I'll take a look.
  26. 2021-02-05 14:57 Robert F. Garry open PDF p.486
    Fig.1 updated
  27. 2021-02-05 14:57 Robert F. Garry open PDF p.486
    shared file(s): image.png
  28. 2021-02-05 14:57 Robert F. Garry open PDF p.486
    Fig. 2
  29. 2021-02-05 14:58 Robert F. Garry open PDF p.486
    shared file(s): image.png
  30. 2021-02-05 14:59 Robert F. Garry open PDF p.486
    Fig. 2 is prob not needed - a bit redundant.
  31. 2021-02-05 15:04 Robert F. Garry open PDF p.486
    https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/chinas-covid-secrets/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Twitter& ;utm_campaign=Trailer&utm_content=Video I recognize some of these ppl.
  32. 2021-02-05 15:07 Kristian G. Andersen open PDF p.486
    Is that the same as the BBC one?
  33. 2021-02-05 15:07 Edward C. Holmes open PDF p.486
    Yes.
  34. 2021-02-05 15:13 Robert F. Garry open PDF p.486
    Same narrator as https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/outbreak/credits/
  35. 2021-02-05 15:14 Robert F. Garry open PDF p.487
    Metabiota is the supervillain organization in this one...
  36. 2021-02-05 15:20 Edward C. Holmes open PDF p.487
    Oh, I will watch that one then! Thanks for the new figures Bob.