Transcript segment

Baric Transcribed Interview (Redacted), p.123 · baric_ti:utt:01067

Date: 2026-04-10 09:00 (day precision)
Type: transcript segment · interview
recipient: Christina Salazar, Harry Kazenoff, David T. Lambeth III, William Henderson, Clark Ervin, Jake Greenberg
speaker: Ralph S. Baric
Topics: Furin cleavage site and molecular features Proximal Origin paper

Okay. So I'll give the straightforward ones first. When we published the 2015 paper, we did not include the full-length sequence of the chimera. And the reason we did not do that is that I initiated a conversation with NIH program and their research journal to request that that sequence not be provided so that no other person would have an exact template for how to build chimeric viruses. I never shared with the Chinese how we did it. I never provided them with the sequence. I never trained anyone from their job in coronavirus reverse genetics. So that's one example of where we specifically did not provide a sequence until after the pandemic started, when several researchers wrote Nature Medicine and said, "We want to look at the sequence to determine whether it's the cause of the pandemic."

Extracted statements

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Statement	Grade	Attribution	Stance
So that's one example of where we specifically did not provide a sequence until after the pandemic started, when several researchers wrote Nature Medicine and said, "We want to look at the sequence to determine whether it's the cause of the pandemic."	quoted / not their view	quoted_external sentence carries quotation marks	asserts

Statement

Grade

Attribution

Stance

So that's one example of where we specifically did not provide a sequence until after the pandemic started, when several researchers wrote Nature Medicine and said, "We want to look at the sequence to determine whether it's the cause of the pandemic."

quoted / not their view

quoted_external sentence carries quotation marks

asserts

In context

A single line often inverts meaning once you see what it answers, so neighbouring messages are always shown.

2026-04-10 09:00 Christina Salazar open

Let's go off the record.
2026-04-10 09:00 David T. Lambeth III open

Five minutes or less. [Recess.]
2026-04-10 09:00 Christina Salazar open

We're back on the record. It's 11:38.
2026-04-10 09:00 David T. Lambeth III open

Sorry. Before Dr. Baric begins his answer I just wanted to say that one of the examples he will give he believes could implicate national security. It's not classified, but we will ask that it be redacted, and are happy to confer about that later.
2026-04-10 09:00 Ralph S. Baric

Okay. So I'll give the straightforward ones first. When we published the 2015 paper, we did not include the full-length sequence of the chimera. And the reason we did not do that is that I initiated a conversation with NIH program and their research journal to request that that sequence not be provided so that no other person would have an exact template for how to build chimeric viruses. I never shared with the Chinese how we did it. I never provided them with the sequence. I never trained anyone from their job in coronavirus reverse genetics. So that's one example of where we specifically did not provide a sequence until after the pandemic started, when several researchers wrote Nature Medicine and said, "We want to look at the sequence to determine whether it's the cause of the pandemic."
2026-04-10 09:00 Christina Salazar open

And what was the sequence? DC.Scheduling@LexitasLegal.com
2026-04-10 09:00 Ralph S. Baric open

The sequence of the SHC014 chimera. So we provided that, and we also put the WIV1 sequence up in PubMed and they analyzed that sequence and agreed that it was not the cause of the pandemic.
2026-04-10 09:00 Christina Salazar open

And that was your decision, solely. No one encourage you or suggested?
2026-04-10 09:00 Ralph S. Baric open

Nobody encouraged me or suggested it. In this case I approached the journal because, again, going back to the transmissible flu studies, it was not just the creation of the transmissible flu virus that was considered sensitive information. It was the details of the technology which also was dual-use. So it's not necessarily just the creation of the entity or the pathogen that's gain-or-function or dual-use. The methodology can be sensitive, and I felt that it was best that we did not provide that information. So that's one example.

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