Transcript segment

Baric Transcribed Interview (Redacted), pp.14-15 · baric_ti:utt:00065

Date: 2026-04-10 09:00 (day precision)
Type: transcript segment · interview
recipient: Christina Salazar, Harry Kazenoff, David T. Lambeth III, William Henderson, Clark Ervin, Jake Greenberg
speaker: Ralph S. Baric
Topics: Vaccines

We had an mRNA vaccine for MERS coronavirus that had been tested in mice, both young and DC.Scheduling@LexitasLegal.com old mice, and it was extremely effective. I think that data was immediately incorporated into the discussions, that I was not part of, but discussions at the Federal level, in terms of prioritizing which vaccines might go forward. So the reason, I think, that we were particularly so excited about that data is that most of the vaccines that I have tested against coronaviruses, epidemic or pandemic, not pandemic, epidemic coronaviruses like the original SARS 2003 strain, or the MERS strain, worked effectively in young animals. But when you took them into aged animals, where the vaccines are less affected by about tenfold, the vaccines would fail. And the beauty about the VRC mRNA vaccine was that the neutralizing titers in the immune responses were as effective in the old animals as the young animals, so they were fully protected. And that was very impressive.

Extracted statements

Rule-extracted, not adjudicated. The grade says what may be done with each one; read the document above before relying on any of them.

Statement	Grade	Attribution	Stance
We had an mRNA vaccine for MERS coronavirus that had been tested in mice, both young and DC.Scheduling@LexitasLegal.com old mice, and it was extremely effective.	own voice, substantive	speaker_own	asserts
I think that data was immediately incorporated into the discussions, that I was not part of, but discussions at the Federal level, in terms of prioritizing which vaccines might go forward.	needs context	uncertain explicit hedge	asserts
So the reason, I think, that we were particularly so excited about that data is that most of the vaccines that I have tested against coronaviruses, epidemic or pandemic, not pandemic, epidemic coronaviruses like the original SARS 2003 strain, or the MERS strain, worked effectively in young animals.	needs context	uncertain explicit hedge	asserts
But when you took them into aged animals, where the vaccines are less affected by about tenfold, the vaccines would fail.	own voice, substantive	speaker_own	asserts
And the beauty about the VRC mRNA vaccine was that the neutralizing titers in the immune responses were as effective in the old animals as the young animals, so they were fully protected.	own voice, substantive	speaker_own	asserts

Statement

Grade

Attribution

Stance

We had an mRNA vaccine for MERS coronavirus that had been tested in mice, both young and DC.Scheduling@LexitasLegal.com old mice, and it was extremely effective.

own voice, substantive

speaker_own

asserts

I think that data was immediately incorporated into the discussions, that I was not part of, but discussions at the Federal level, in terms of prioritizing which vaccines might go forward.

needs context

uncertain explicit hedge

asserts

So the reason, I think, that we were particularly so excited about that data is that most of the vaccines that I have tested against coronaviruses, epidemic or pandemic, not pandemic, epidemic coronaviruses like the original SARS 2003 strain, or the MERS strain, worked effectively in young animals.

needs context

uncertain explicit hedge

asserts

But when you took them into aged animals, where the vaccines are less affected by about tenfold, the vaccines would fail.

own voice, substantive

speaker_own

asserts

And the beauty about the VRC mRNA vaccine was that the neutralizing titers in the immune responses were as effective in the old animals as the young animals, so they were fully protected.

own voice, substantive

speaker_own

asserts

In context

A single line often inverts meaning once you see what it answers, so neighbouring messages are always shown.

2026-04-10 09:00 Ralph S. Baric open

Around the 7th. There were a lot of phone calls in the first three weeks of January. But certainly I did talk to him. The exact date, I'd have to look at my notes. I thought it was more around the 11th or 12th, but it could easily be the 7th.
2026-04-10 09:00 Christina Salazar open

Was that the first NIH employee that you had spoken to, or had you spoken with others?
2026-04-10 09:00 Ralph S. Baric open

Somewhere around those dates I also talked to Barney Graham at the VRC, because we'd been working since about 2017 on mRNA-LNP-based vaccines using MERS coronavirus as, in essence, a paradigm model for how to develop an effective vaccine against coronavirus.
2026-04-10 09:00 Christina Salazar open

Did you already have a vaccine developed with them, or was it still --
2026-04-10 09:00 Ralph S. Baric

We had an mRNA vaccine for MERS coronavirus that had been tested in mice, both young and DC.Scheduling@LexitasLegal.com old mice, and it was extremely effective. I think that data was immediately incorporated into the discussions, that I was not part of, but discussions at the Federal level, in terms of prioritizing which vaccines might go forward. So the reason, I think, that we were particularly so excited about that data is that most of the vaccines that I have tested against coronaviruses, epidemic or pandemic, not pandemic, epidemic coronaviruses like the original SARS 2003 strain, or the MERS strain, worked effectively in young animals. But when you took them into aged animals, where the vaccines are less affected by about tenfold, the vaccines would fail. And the beauty about the VRC mRNA vaccine was that the neutralizing titers in the immune responses were as effective in the old animals as the young animals, so they were fully protected. And that was very impressive.
2026-04-10 09:00 Christina Salazar open

And so the VRC Moderna vaccine.
2026-04-10 09:00 Ralph S. Baric open

Yeah. Moderna certainly was engaged. Whether they actually manufactured the vaccine that was put in the animals or not, or whether NIH made that vaccine and put it in, I don't know.
2026-04-10 09:00 Christina Salazar open

And your vaccine, what was it called?
2026-04-10 09:00 Ralph S. Baric open

Oh, the Moderna vaccine?

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