Private channel session 1136
21 messages over 2h 15m, 2021-03-21 – 2021-03-21.
A “conversation” here is an activity session — a run of messages with under 60 minutes of silence inside it. The channel had no native conversation boundaries.
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Dominic told me that might be a week or two yet and that they had some WHO meetings lined up this week. Colleague just found an alpha coronavirus in a pangolin so clearly these animals are highly susceptible. [shared file(s): pangolin -CoV.png]
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Does it have a FCS?
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They only have 3 kb at the moment. Not quite sure which bit. I'll investigate.
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Raises a question as to whether pangolins are true reservoirs of multiple CoV lineages (possible) or just occasionally getting infected via spillovers - presumably from bats. Same question can be raised regarding SC1 visavis civets and the occasional raccoon dog - are these species true SC1 reservoirs or occasional spillovers? Related question - have humans gone from being spillover hosts to now being Ebola virus reservoirs? I think you could argue either way.
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I suspect there are reservoirs. We are now seeing multiple lineages over multiple years - with Tommy we have seropositives dating back to Malaysia a few years ago. Hopefully will get sequences very soon. The key point is thatit won't just be bats and pangolins....
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I agree, and glad that Tommy is working hard on this question - it's important. The argument that civets are a true reservoirs of SC1 hinges on the fact that they were involved in both SC1 outbreaks a year apart. Your key point is -well very key! SC1 and 2 both pan-tropic - maybe the pango CoVs are as well.
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China Covid researchers 'in first cluster' Virologist Shi Zheng-li, left, works with her colleague in the P4 lab of Wuhan Institute of Virology in central China's Hubei province in 2017. Picture: Getty Images· SHARRI MARKSONINVESTIGATIONS EDITOR• 6:06AM MARCH 22, 2021• 180 _COMMENTS_
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Wuhan Institute of Virology researchers working on coronaviruses were hospitalised with symptoms consistent with COVID-19 in early November 2019 in what US officials suspect could have been the first cluster. The US is also examining whether the institute developed SARS-COV-2 while working on a coronavirus vaccine. The US State Department's former lead investigator into the origins of COVID-19, David Asher, said the possibility could not be ruled out that the vaccine was being developed as an "antidote" to a bioweapon.Mr Asher, who has served under both Republican and Democrat administrations, has previously led US government investigations into biological, chemical and nuclear proliferation in Iran and North Korea.He said US intelligence that has now been declassified, along with information from public sources, has crediblyconfirmed that three workers from the Wuhan Institute of Virology fell sick in early to mid-November 2019, prior tothe official start of the pandemic. Their illness was consistent with both COVID-19 and influenza and, in his personal assessment, was the likely cause of the outbreak.THEAUSTRALIAN.COM.AU12:05Wuhan Institute of Virology 'highly probably' the source of COVID-19 The former lead investigator who spearheaded a taskforce for the US government into the origins of COVID-19 hasdeclared the virus may have been the result of work done for a biological weapons program in Wuhan. "There were multiple staff members who did have to go to hospital and appeared to have had conditions ofCOVID-19," he said. "You don't normally go to the hospital with influenza, especially a cluster of people. This is the most probable source of the outbreak."It was possible, Mr Asher said, that there were clusters of COVID-19 prior to this outbreak in November, pointing toa spike in influenza in China in the autumn of 2019 that he said may have included coronavirus cases.A week ago, Mr Asher told Fox News that in his opinion, COVID-19 may have been a bioweapon. When asked by The Australian whether this was an active line of inquiry within the US government, he said: "Yes." "There is a high probability the Chinese government was engaged in a weaponisation effort at the Wuhan Institute ofVirology and other institutes involving coronavirus research," Mr Asher said. "Whether offence or defence, which isalmost impossible to tell, it was 100 per cent undeclared and that is a serious violation of the Biological WeaponsConvention and the WHO International Health Regs -- to the extent it spilled out and over somehow."Mr Asher said one theory on the table was that COVID-19 emerged during vaccine development, potentially even asan antidote to a bioweapon. "There's evidence certain scientists have found ... that there was adenovirus present inthe sequences posted publicly," Mr Asher said. The Wuhan Institute of Virology last month. Picture: AFP"Adenovirus means that there was a vaccine present for COVID-19; that could indicate that this was a bio-defenceproject putting a vaccine together. "People don't normally develop a vaccine for something they are working on. That doesn't make any sense ... todevelop a vaccine in advance for something that would never see the light of day makes it sort of ridiculous but istotally consistent with a biological weapons program. They develop an antidote."A WHO team member who visited Wuhan on the recent study tour, Marion Koopmans, had confirmed that "one ortwo" workers fell sick. Her view was that it was not unusual and she did not indicate any employees had beenhospitalised.The US State Department declassified intelligence in a statement dated January 15, 2021, where it was first revealed that Wuhan Institute of Virology workers had fallen sick in the autumn of 2019.At the time, the information was dismissed by critics, as secretary of state Mike Pompeo was hitting out at China onhis way out of office. Former deputy national security adviser for the Trump administration Matt Pottinger has since confirmed that USintelligence agencies had authorised the release of the information contained in that statement.Mr Asher's revelation that at least one Wuhan Institute of Virology employee required hospitalisation takes the information a step further. While some scientists and politicians say COVID-19 likely emerged naturally, Mr Asher said in his assessment itprobably came from a laboratory.
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Sharri's piece.
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When yuri says the
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dude's biology knowledge is lacking - well u be the judge; [shared file(s): image.png]
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Even the conspiracy theorists are not convinced.
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Not impressed with Sharri. Mr Asher is definitely a clown.
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Totally. What a shit story. She forgot the add the bit about all these people being SARS-CoV-2 antibody negative.
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:woman-facepalming:must have been an over-sight on her part.
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Not sure who is managing WHO, but these "delays" are self-inflicted wounds. They really should not be promising areport next week, then another week and then kick the can yet again. Feeding into the Parisites...
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Agreed. WHO are just too bureaucratic. I'll mention this to Dominic.
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Started out promising - and then just went off the rails.... If they could credibly show that three people at WIV got sick and needed to go to the hospital in November, then that would absolutely be troubling. However, the we started talking about adenoviruses and bioweapons - clearly just idiots doing what idiots do.
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Mad shit.
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Maddening that Biden admin seems to have at least partly bought into this shit.
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Maybe someone should pass this on to Jessie. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/03/the-conspiracy-theorists-problem-isnt-what-they-believe/618285/"The psychological traits that lead one down the conspiracy-theory rabbit hole are to some extent present in most ofus. We all like to listen to people who agree with us. We are all prone to reject unwelcome evidence. We are all more engaged by dramatic stories than by gritty policy detail. And we all like to feel that we have insights into the world that others lack. Nobody likes to feel that they are being taken for a fool, so doubting early and often can seem like the smart thing to do. And if we want to think clearly about the world, skepticism is a good thing."