Private channel session 256
17 messages over 1h 52m, 2020-07-29 – 2020-07-29.
A “conversation” here is an activity session — a run of messages with under 60 minutes of silence inside it. The channel had no native conversation boundaries.
-
Okay, so I have pretty much settled on us needing to contact Nature - it's the right thing to do. We should alert themto the problem, make it clear that they have divulged private and confidential information from the review process (and implicated high-ranking US officials) in a factually wrong narrative about a scientific study on a sensitive subject. We will mention that we have strong reason to believe that we know the identity of the person, but that wewill not identify him - but that he is either reviewer 2 himself, or received (confidential) information from reviewer 2.What I'm less certain about is whether this should be supplemented with a 'friendly' and carefully crafted email toBaric's Proton email alerting him to the issues ( (1) releasing private and confidential information on a sensitive subject, (2) implicating high-ranking US officials in a meeting that may or may not have occurred, (3) writing libel withdefamatory and incorrect statements about a scientific study). We would not name Ralph in the email, but thank him for his "many important scientific contributions to SARS and SARS2, including GoF, which we believe to be criticallyimportant work"). We'd suggest that he refrain from pushing his libel any further and that we would also not go any further to keep the focus on the science and outbreak response (but make it clear that we contacted the journal already). The purpose of the email would be to stop him from going any further with this. Our enquiry to Nature could achievethe same, assuming Clare would contact Reviewer 2 with the concerns raised. I might prefer that option, but I wantto leave the other option on the table too in case we need it.Thoughts?
-
Contacting Nature is the right thing to do. They will have little recourse other than to contact Reviewer #2 andfiguratively rap her or him on the knuckles. I'd include the E/K email, which responds to the libelous accusationsdecisively, but not name Jon Cohen. Responding to the protonmail is less obvious - it would be satisfying, but - trustme on this one - Deep Throat is already convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that he or she is doing the right thing even if it means breaking every rule of confidentiality and peer review. Furthermore, even though the E/K emailoutline responds to the libelous accusations decisively, when Cohen shares it with DT [I think JC will] it will just beencouraging. Facts will be selectively extracted from the E/K email to confirm DT's pre-existing narrative.
-
I would be against sending anything to DT directly as satisfying as it could be in the short term.
-
I agree. An email from all of us to Clare is the 1st thing to do.
-
I also think Jeremy should email everyone on the call to tell them about the leak.
-
Just to clarify - email to Proton would not be to satisfy our own urge for revenge - it's purely to make it clear that this goes no further. But yes, I'm in agreement - I think the first thing should be an email to Nature and then see where that takes us. We can bring out the nukes if necessary.
-
Oh, I like that idea too Eddie - do you want to ask him?
-
I've told Jeremy who we think it is and he agrees, and that the leaker was likely Ron. I'll see if he is willing to go any further.
-
Okay, great. Let me work a little on a draft for Nature. I'm in meetings for a few hours, but I'll get on it a little later today
-
And I don't think we want to give Clare the whole narrative we emailed to Jon - other than to say it's completely wrong. We can give it to her if she asks, but I don't think we necessarily want her to email all those details to the reviewer just yet. I don't think Jon will share back what we did yesterday with Deep Throat.
-
If Jeremy could mention that the meeting was confidential and the information classified (I believe it was a secure line?) that would be helpful. He should mention we will contact the journal and that the narrative is false (I assumehe won't actually be sharing the email to Jon?)
-
I seem to remember that Jeremy actually contacted Nature to tell them it would be coming. Have an email to that effect.
-
It was definitely to be on a secure line. I'll email Jeremy and see what he says. Kristian - do you want to draft the email to Clare.
-
Don't get me wrong, I want serious revenge on this. I spent much of the night plotting schemes. But, we need to absolutely take the moral high ground all the way through this.
-
It also occurs to me that whoever in the meeting leaked it may not have intended it to get out and was just gossipingto his mate. A careful move keeping the meeting participants onside could be good.
-
We've got that high ground, but there are probably many more than a few in the Old Coronavirus Guard that don't like us "interlopers" getting so much positive attention [Cohen article a case in point] and have had enough. Looking down from the other side it actually does piss me off that curefinder - class clown and the worse grad student inhistory - was able to lie his way into a position as virus expert on national teevee [karma is a bear though]. Agree with Andrew that the leaker may not be nefarious - just a gossiper - the info just got into the hands of one or a few ofthe righteously pissed off. I agree informing the meeting participants - even if they are not all exactly "happy" with us- would be a decent move.
-
Possible I guess. Any email from Jeremy should just be passive and just say remember it was confidential. It is also striking that we have not had one email, phone call of complaint from any on the call (or anyone else for that matter) about the paper. Nothing. The only moans we have had are from the lab escape mob.