Private channel session 1362
29 messages over 4h 37m, 2021-05-12 – 2021-05-12.
A “conversation” here is an activity session — a run of messages with under 60 minutes of silence inside it. The channel had no native conversation boundaries.
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Early draft that'll likely change - but lemme know suggested edits / ideas. Dear Mike, Thanks for the heads up - much appreciated. We are well aware of the upcoming letter and I was somewhat amused to see that one of your signatories include a person who vehemently attacked me when I suggested we needed to take a potential lab leak seriously back in February, 2020 - the reason why the _"Standing Committee on Emerging Infectious Diseases and 21st Century Health Threats"_ that David and I sit on was established. Unlike what is claimed in your letter, we have of course learned a lot since the beginning of the pandemic and noevidence has been uncovered to support any connection to the lab - which remains a speculative theory that would necessarily involve a major cover up and complex web of lies perpetrated by the very scientists and public health authorities that you thank in the end of your letter. Unless there's evidence to directly support such a conspiracy, Ithink we have to be very careful that we don't unnecessarily add to ongoing anti-Asian racism and hate crimes. I amof course well aware that that is not the intent of your letter, however, it should be clear that it will very likely fan theflames of xenophobia and conspiracy theories - with allegations of a lab leak having no scientific grounding inavailable evidence or data.As somebody with significant experience working in outbreak response with international governments and public health authorities - whether that be in 'the field', on the bench, or in front of the computer - I think it is important thatwe strongly support further evidence-based studies into the origin of the COVID-19 pandemic. Making demands for investigations and data that are clearly outside the mandate, power, or resources of the WHO - instead of supporting work already in progress - will necessarily make it even harder to support future joint missions to perform thecritically important task of uncovering what led to the emergence of SARS-CoV-2. That will require trust,coordination, and corporation among international partners, including China.
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This is great Kristian - hits both Eddies point: Se "completely misrepresents the remit and outcomes of the WHO report and presents a hopelessly naive plan of the next steps" and Andrew's point about the conspiracy and cover-up.
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@Andrew Rambaut - any comments on this draft? You know Mike better and it's pretty harsh(ish). I don't mind pissing up David and Jesse, but I do care about Mike and have a very hard time believing he's signing this for the same reasons Jesse (conspiracy) and David (GOF) are.
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A few journos have contacted me too and I was maybe a bit more harsh. Love the bit on "Barrett." RelBloom is actually seriously crap [for all the reasons you mention] and those that signed it should as Eddie said be ashamed.
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A few additional edits - I'll email it in a couple of hours. I have a call with Marc S in 35 mins that Mike is supposed tobe on - we'll see... After sending this, I'll email him separately to engage him at a personal level. ```Dear Mike, Thanks for the heads up - much appreciated. We are aware of the upcoming letter and I was amused to see that one of your signatories is a person who vehemently attacked me when I suggested we needed to take a potential lab leak seriously back in February, 2020 - the reason why the "Standing Committee on Emerging Infectious Diseases and 21st Century Health Threats" that David and I sit on was established. Since then, we have of course learned a lot and despite what is alleged in your letter, a significant amount of critical data have been uncovered, including in the recent WHO report (I provide a rather extensive summary here: https://twitter.com/K_G_Andersen/status/1376954932004196352?s=20). Importantly, no evidence has been presented to support any connection to the lab - which remains a speculative theory that would necessarily involve amajor cover up and complex web of lies perpetrated by the very scientists and public health authorities that you thank in the end of your letter. Unless there's direct evidence to support such a conspiracy, I think we have to bevery careful that we don't unnecessarily add to ongoing anti-Asian racism and hate crimes. I am of course well aware that that is not the intent of your letter, however, it should be clear that it will fan the flames of xenophobia and conspiracy theories - with allegations of a lab leak having no scientific grounding in available evidence or data.As somebody with significant experience working with international governments and public health authorities onmultiple levels of outbreak response - whether that be in 'the field', on the bench, or in front of the computer - I thinkit is important that we strongly support further evidence-based studies into the origin of the COVID-19 pandemic. Making naive demands for investigations and data that are clearly outside the scope, mandate, or capabilities of the WHO - instead of putting our full support behind joint missions already in progress - will make it harder to uncoverexactly how SARS-CoV-2 emerged. Such studies will require trust, coordination, and collaboration among international partners, including China. Despite what I am sure are your best intentions, I doubt your letter will help that process.We have all been receiving a lot of requests from journalists wanting us to comment on your letter. I have largelyrefrained from responding, however, I have included some prepared comments below that you may encounter.Best,Kristian ```
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The Science letter will surely feed this https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/going-viral-how-a-book-on-amazon-inspired-the-latest-covid-conspiracy-202105 12-p57r6e.html
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Good reporting - I hope to see more like this as RelBloomshit hits the newscycle.
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Well - confidentially - no CoV yet but these pangos sure carry a lot of viruses: [shared file(s): tree_v8_rename.pdf]
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Fake.
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Yes, the shanbavirus was my idea. Nice touch I thought.
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Some of the pango RSV look a lot like human RSV - did we get it from them or did we give it to them?
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Looks good @Kristian Andersen - only comment would be to say 'despite what is asserted in your letter' (rather than'alleged') and possibly 'co-signatories' in the second sentence.
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The scale bar on that tree is deceptive but I will ask.
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This is funny - replace Peter and I with the likes of Jamie himself... [shared file(s): Screen Shot 2021-05-12 at14.54.36.png]
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WTF is he talking about?
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@Robert Garry Just say your Virological post. Great idea to get your retaliation in first! Sorry that I did not have achance to comment before it went it. I'll check about those two RSV sequences. Either way, it highlights the risk ofthe wildlife trade. SLACK_001002
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I'll try to interpret (not telling where I learned to speak "cray-cray") It's probably PO1 and The Lancet letter he's talking about.
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Yeah - spoke with @Kristian Andersen adhe told me could be off-loaded from virological if too "hot" - got some other stuffis going to have to have some back surgery not trivial but hopefully going to fix some rather serious pain issues she's been having] going on and wanted to get it out.
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Oh - and Billy is helping direct traffic to virological - so all good....
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I look forward to reading it shortly. Sorry to hear about your wife Bob - hope she is doing ok.
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Thanks - She'll do much better after they take out the very likely nonmalignant mass near the end of her spinal cord.Should stop the pain and prognosis for full recovery is "excellent." It's a long recovery though.
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Backs are always the worst. Just read your post - the two markets point is absolutely killer. What are the odds?
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Agreed - great post Bob and the figures are ace! I hope is better - backs are the worst.
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In other news - I Will Not Be Silenced! https://townhall.com/columnists/anncoulter/2021/05/1 2/i-will-not-be-scienced-n2589343
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Definitely a badge of honour name check in that one.
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Wait, Billy asked a good question? [shared file(s): Screen Shot 2021-05-12 at 4.16.00 PM.png]
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(and the paper eDim points to isn't GOF - he's been running around in circles all day)
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Dim and dimmer.
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Time to just flip the switch and turn it off.