---
type: Conversation
title: Private channel session 1564
description: "slack conversation, 15 messages, 2021-07-09."
tags:
  - conversation
  - slack
medium: slack
message_count: 15
started_at: "2021-07-09T03:00:12"
ended_at: "2021-07-09T05:03:36"
duration_seconds: 7404
sources:
  - { id: slack_pm, resource: /sources/slack-pm.md, title: Slack / Private Message Drop, author: "process:senate-hsgac-release" }
generated: { by: randpaul-corpus-pipeline/1.0, at: "2026-08-01T12:42:27Z" }
status: stable
---

A slack conversation of 15 messages spanning 2h 3m.

# Metadata

- **Started:** 2021-07-09T03:00:12
- **Ended:** 2021-07-09T05:03:36
- **Duration:** 2h 3m
- **Participants:** 2
- **Source:** [slack_pm](/sources/slack-pm.md)
- **Pages:** 977-981

# Participants

* [Andrew Rambaut](/people/andrew-rambaut.md)
* [Edward C. Holmes](/people/edward-c-holmes.md)
* [Kristian G. Andersen](/people/kristian-g-andersen.md)
* [Robert F. Garry](/people/robert-f-garry.md)

# Transcript

**[2021-07-09T03:00:12] Andrew Rambaut:** Question from Jon Cohen:

**[2021-07-09T03:00:12] Andrew Rambaut:** ```Is this accurate? How likely is is that humans infected civets with SARS-CoV? Begin forwarded message: From: Frutos > Date: July 8, 2021 at 8:06:23 PM PDT To: Jon Cohen > Subject: Re: Interesting question [EXTERNAL EMAIL] In the trees SARS-CoV RdRp and spike are shown in red. The host code is Plar for civets and Hsap for humans. None is ancestral to the other. It is the same virus. Le 09/07/2021 à 04:19, Jon Cohen a écrit : So you disagree with the rooting that shows civet SARS-CoV is ancestral to human? On Jul 8, 2021, at 6:31 PM, Frutos .fr> wrote: [EXTERNAL EMAIL] I didn't fully answered. Yes it is misguided because of quasispecies and metapopulation but also because of the flawed…

**[2021-07-09T03:00:12] Andrew Rambaut:** Roger has some relevant points but then as you go up the thread gets increasingly bonkers:

**[2021-07-09T03:00:23] Andrew Rambaut:** ````It is a quasispecies evolution. Human viruses exist only in humans. SARS-CoV-2 is just one of the multiple human avatars of the SARS metapopulation. SARS-CoV is another one. Both have emerged by chance. Many haven't. SARS-CoV-3 is perhaps already evolving in humans but we will know it only after its emergence.``` What??

**[2021-07-09T03:09:49] Edward C. Holmes:** I've come across this guy before. I can't quite recall how. He thinks that everything is interconnected. Clearly crazy. Ithought another reason that civets were ancestral was that they had very high prevalence:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3323399/

**[2021-07-09T03:17:35] Andrew Rambaut:** Yeah - and the found SARS in some that lay outside the diversity of humans.

**[2021-07-09T03:57:19] Andrew Rambaut:** Eddie - what is your current status with your FOI requests? I guess the rules are different in Australia but it might begood to coordinate as my requests are:• All correspondence between you and me from 2019-2021 (my admin has said we narrow this to only those about the lab-escape stuff because they make it clear that is what they are interested in).A second request asking for:• All documents about the "Proximal Origins ..." research project (I am not sure how we will deal with that as it wasn'ta research project).

**[2021-07-09T04:07:31] Andrew Rambaut:** I should say that some of the emails make it clear that you are not part of a conspiracy - this one where you sent methe pictures of the raccoon dogs: [shared file(s): image.png]

**[2021-07-09T04:37:38] Edward C. Holmes:** If asked under UK law my Uni will block any release of these emails. Their case is that they were intended to be sentin confidence and that their release will do me harm (e.g. mental health) because the of the current levels of abuse. Plenty of evidence for that. The Uni have a duty of care. They also say that releasing one will set a precedent for releasing more so they all need to be blocked.

**[2021-07-09T04:49:42] Andrew Rambaut:** Perhaps I need to get our lawyers to talk to your lawyers?

**[2021-07-09T04:49:53] Andrew Rambaut:** Given it is both ends of the same set of emails.

**[2021-07-09T04:56:04] Edward C. Holmes:** Yes. That's a good idea. The person they should talk to first is the USYD contact who is Kate Cumming ( ). She's very good.

**[2021-07-09T04:56:49] Andrew Rambaut:** OK, thanks. Will pass this on.

**[2021-07-09T04:59:25] Andrew Rambaut:** I am going to try to remember to use my gmail address for all such emails in future.

**[2021-07-09T05:03:36] Edward C. Holmes:** They told me that doesn't matter if it is 'work' related. But, the very fact you using your Uni email shows that you are not hiding anything.