---
type: Conversation
title: Private channel session 1443
description: "slack conversation, 12 messages, 2021-05-28."
tags:
  - conversation
  - slack
medium: slack
message_count: 12
started_at: "2021-05-28T07:07:25"
ended_at: "2021-05-28T08:20:18"
duration_seconds: 4373
sources:
  - { id: slack_pm, resource: /sources/slack-pm.md, title: Slack / Private Message Drop, author: "process:senate-hsgac-release" }
generated: { by: randpaul-corpus-pipeline/1.0, at: "2026-08-01T12:42:27Z" }
status: stable
---

A slack conversation of 12 messages spanning 1h 12m.

# Metadata

- **Started:** 2021-05-28T07:07:25
- **Ended:** 2021-05-28T08:20:18
- **Duration:** 1h 12m
- **Participants:** 3
- **Source:** [slack_pm](/sources/slack-pm.md)
- **Pages:** 888-889

# Participants

* [Andrew Rambaut](/people/andrew-rambaut.md)
* [Edward C. Holmes](/people/edward-c-holmes.md)
* [Kristian G. Andersen](/people/kristian-g-andersen.md)
* [Robert F. Garry](/people/robert-f-garry.md)

# Transcript

**[2021-05-28T07:07:25] Kristian G. Andersen:** Predictable... https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/28/china/china-coronavirus-lab-leak-floods-mic-intl-hnk/index.html

**[2021-05-28T07:14:06] Andrew Rambaut:** Ha. I suggested on Twitter it was as likely that some one from USAMRIID infected themself and then flew to Wuhanas it was for someone from WIV to have leaked it. I will ask Beijing for a bung.

**[2021-05-28T07:14:35] Andrew Rambaut:** I mean you can't prove they didn't.

**[2021-05-28T07:15:03] Andrew Rambaut:** And there are direct flights from US to Wuhan - coincidence? I don't think so.

**[2021-05-28T07:20:29] Robert F. Garry:** Another 4 or so on the shit scale: [shared file(s): How China Is Responding to the Wuhan Lab Leak Theory _ Time.pdf]

**[2021-05-28T07:23:06] Robert F. Garry:** So will USAMRIID open their books for a "forensic" evaluation? Porton Down? Winnepeg? I think not.

**[2021-05-28T07:28:20] Robert F. Garry:** It's frankly insane - USAMRIID is not going to release info all the projects that they have ongoing on emerging infectious disease vaccines and countermeasures. Same with the others. Might as well write a blueprint for terroristorgs.

**[2021-05-28T07:38:43] Kristian G. Andersen:** Just pure insanity all around. And the main issue here is the false equivalence - there's this sense that unless wehave 100% proof, we can't know one way or the other. Simply not true - given current evidence, we can give a very strong statement about how this happened - unless somebody brings credible data about a lab leak, we already know what happened and just need to figure out the exact details.

**[2021-05-28T07:44:27] Robert F. Garry:** Yes it's a binary [but an incredibly skewed one] - it's either lab leak [all versions by the way involve conspiracies now- because even if you accept Relman's "they had it and didn't know hybrid scenario" then they still have to be lying about the serology] *or* natural. Disprove one and it has to be the other.

**[2021-05-28T07:53:44] Robert F. Garry:** Serious question - now that _Science_ stuck their collective head in the sand do I send anything back to the Bloomshitters. I was thinking about a "cordial," - It does not look like Science has any interest in hosting any type ofserious discussion about COVID-19 origins. There will be other opportunities. Meanwhile, please take another lookat the data in the WHO document. There is actually a lot of evidence here including important genetic data regarding the cases at the markets. Or, just let it "lie."

**[2021-05-28T08:19:50] Robert F. Garry:** @Eddie Holmes thinking more about you brilliant idea - they definitely need to test those environmental samples and identify the animals associated withe the SC2 PCR positives at the marketS. Veterinary genetics forensics isdefinitely a thing. https://vgl.ucdavis.edu/forensics

**[2021-05-28T08:20:18] Robert F. Garry:** BTW - doing TwiV at 1pm...