--- type: Conversation title: Private channel session 1437 description: "slack conversation, 34 messages, 2021-05-25." tags: - conversation - slack medium: slack message_count: 34 started_at: "2021-05-25T17:26:08" ended_at: "2021-05-25T19:30:34" duration_seconds: 7466 sources: - { id: slack_pm, resource: /sources/slack-pm.md, title: Slack / Private Message Drop, author: "process:senate-hsgac-release" } generated: { by: randpaul-corpus-pipeline/1.0, at: "2026-08-01T12:42:27Z" } status: stable --- A slack conversation of 34 messages spanning 2h 4m. # Metadata - **Started:** 2021-05-25T17:26:08 - **Ended:** 2021-05-25T19:30:34 - **Duration:** 2h 4m - **Participants:** 3 - **Source:** [slack_pm](/sources/slack-pm.md) - **Pages:** 870-876 # Participants * [Andrew Rambaut](/people/andrew-rambaut.md) * [Edward C. Holmes](/people/edward-c-holmes.md) * [Kristian G. Andersen](/people/kristian-g-andersen.md) * [Robert F. Garry](/people/robert-f-garry.md) # Transcript **[2021-05-25T17:26:08] Kristian G. Andersen:** This is actually a good point from Peter - but, of course, he'd lie about it. [shared file(s): Screen Shot 2021-05-25 at5.25.29 PM.png] **[2021-05-25T17:30:34] Edward C. Holmes:** I'm sick, so I might not be reading this correctly. **[2021-05-25T17:30:37] Edward C. Holmes:** American scientists caught in Wuhan web of intrigue Senior US personnel have been involved with the Wuhan Institute of Virology, even visiting coronavirus research labs, an investigation by The Australian has revealed. By SHARRI MARKSON Members of a World Health Organisation team investigating the origins of Covid-19 arrive at the Wuhan Institute ofVirologyin February. Picture: AFPInside America's highly secretive biological research site at Fort Detrick, Maryland, are biosafety level-four laboratories.Soldiers guard the premises that house America's bio-defence agency, the US Army Medical Research Institute ofInfectious Diseases. It's the last place on Earth you would expect to have… **[2021-05-25T17:31:34] Edward C. Holmes:** I think that wins the most deranged article of the whole pandemic. Published in The Australian. **[2021-05-25T17:38:16] Kristian G. Andersen:** Is there something wrong with the formatting? Because _*none*_ of this makes any sense whatsoever. **[2021-05-25T17:39:23] Kristian G. Andersen:** It honestly reads like a really terrible Google translation of a Chinese document. Hmmmm :thinking_face: **[2021-05-25T17:43:34] Edward C. Holmes:** It's missing the pictures. Try this: [shared file(s): Re Ugh.pdf] **[2021-05-25T17:44:44] Kristian G. Andersen:** Nope - still the same. Total gibberish. I love the subject line of that email - "Ugh" indeed. **[2021-05-25T17:48:21] Edward C. Holmes:** The story seems to be that an editor of Virologica Sinica who worked at the USAMRID once went to WIV for a journal meeting. I particularly like the bit about Jens Kuhn also being on the editorial board....if Jens were in chargeof WIV they'd have all their viruses beautifully classified by now. **[2021-05-25T17:50:28] Edward C. Holmes:** Sharri is totally deranged. Off the scale. **[2021-05-25T17:52:51] Kristian G. Andersen:** Completely off the scale. How this gets past editorial, I just don't understand - they must be desperate for anything lab leak related. **[2021-05-25T17:57:34] Edward C. Holmes:** I would have thought China would be delighted to see USAMRID mentioned. **[2021-05-25T18:00:38] Edward C. Holmes:** Here's an S gene tree with Weifeng's and Shi's new sequence (green). Clearly a distinct lineage. [shared file(s): RAxML_bipartitions.SpikeNT_MSA_tidy.pdf] **[2021-05-25T18:19:58] Edward C. Holmes:** https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/25/politics/biden-shut-down-trump-effort-coronavirus-chinese-lab/index.html **[2021-05-25T18:43:41] Kristian G. Andersen:** Reading... Separately, Marc is going to regret getting on Twitter today... **[2021-05-25T18:44:33] Kristian G. Andersen:** He made the mistake of bringing up a few specific points (while criticizing our paper) and he's absolutely getting his ass handed to him for being so darn naive. I hope he learns from the experience. **[2021-05-25T18:53:39] Edward C. Holmes:** Is he suggesting they got directly infected from tissue in the freezer? **[2021-05-25T19:17:51] Kristian G. Andersen:** Yup, he just brought that up **[2021-05-25T19:18:23] Kristian G. Andersen:** I called it a "very specific version of natural emergence" (and hence hugely unlikely). He didn't like that very much. **[2021-05-25T19:18:56] Kristian G. Andersen:** He's being absolutely swarmed at the moment though, so not really fair to him - but I gotta say, boy oh boy is the stuff he says naive. **[2021-05-25T19:20:45] Kristian G. Andersen:** Look at the last tweet in that thread too. Bringing up bacteria... ANYBODY with a little bit of knowledge would look atthat and say "wait, what, he doesn't even understand the basics"?Unreal. I really respect Marc a lot - as in, a lot. But this is uninformed and naive. [shared file(s): Screen Shot2021-05-25 at 7.19.25 PM.png] **[2021-05-25T19:22:46] Edward C. Holmes:** Isolating bacteria in live animals? WTF? **[2021-05-25T19:24:21] Kristian G. Andersen:** Yeah - that's what SARS-CoV-2 did. It jumped out of a tube and into a person. And then it caused a super spreading event at a wet market. And then the pandemic. Simple, really.I was kinda hoping Alex would go in for the kill... Good thing Andrew is asleep. **[2021-05-25T19:30:34] Edward C. Holmes:** Just supreme arrogance. The other question is where this will all end? Will China seriously allow another, more detailed investigation? I think not. SLACK_001089 **[2021-05-25T19:30:34] Kristian G. Andersen:** Of course they will Eddie - don't be daft. They'll welcome us with open arms and Zhengli will head the welcome committee. **[2021-05-25T19:30:34] Robert F. Garry:** Just had a long talk (70 minutes) with Carl Zimmer - brought up some of these points. **[2021-05-25T19:30:34] Kristian G. Andersen:** Good. Let's hope this can get back on track - but I'm not hopeful in the short term. **[2021-05-25T19:30:34] Robert F. Garry:** Zimmer writes with Gorman so could go anywhere. **[2021-05-25T19:30:34] Edward C. Holmes:** No chance in the short-term **[2021-05-25T19:30:34] Kristian G. Andersen:** Key. https://twitter.com/acritschristoph/status/1397409973257179138?s=20 **[2021-05-25T19:30:34] Robert F. Garry:** https://unherd.com/2021/05/what-if-there-was-a-lab-leak/ This tells you all you need to know: "The latest _Wall Street Journal_ story, for example, about three Wuhan researchers allegedly falling suspiciously sick in November,builds on facts revealed by David Asher, former lead investigator for the State Department, in interviews two months ago with both the Australian journalist Sharri Markson and myself." **[2021-05-25T19:30:34] Robert F. Garry:** BTW- really "fair and balanced" reporting from Birrill. **[2021-05-25T19:30:34] Kristian G. Andersen:** shared file(s): Fwd: [whcanyt] Statement by President Joe Biden on the Investigation into the Origins of COVID-19 **[2021-05-25T19:30:34] Robert F. Garry:** My response to Carl same question. Thanks Carl and I too enjoyed the chat. When the WSJ ran their article last Sunday I revisited the reports of the 2-3 sick WIV workers. I need to go off the record for a bit: is a FSO and until last July worked directly with Secretary Pompeo. It was a difficult post -- she's now in ie Knows and has worked with David Asher who is responsible for the intelligence on the 2-3 lab workers and Miles Yu China expert - both are now at the Hudson Institute. It's fair to say in the case of both that their take on Lab Leak is driven by a strong Anti-China bias. Back on the record. The intelligence about the 2-3 lab works being sick and checking into hospital has…