--- type: Conversation title: Private channel session 1359 description: "slack conversation, 27 messages, 2021-05-11." tags: - conversation - slack medium: slack message_count: 27 started_at: "2021-05-11T21:26:57" ended_at: "2021-05-11T22:40:54" duration_seconds: 4437 sources: - { id: slack_pm, resource: /sources/slack-pm.md, title: Slack / Private Message Drop, author: "process:senate-hsgac-release" } generated: { by: randpaul-corpus-pipeline/1.0, at: "2026-08-01T12:42:27Z" } status: stable --- A slack conversation of 27 messages spanning 1h 13m. # Metadata - **Started:** 2021-05-11T21:26:57 - **Ended:** 2021-05-11T22:40:54 - **Duration:** 1h 13m - **Participants:** 2 - **Source:** [slack_pm](/sources/slack-pm.md) - **Pages:** 781-784 # Participants * [Andrew Rambaut](/people/andrew-rambaut.md) * [Edward C. Holmes](/people/edward-c-holmes.md) * [Kristian G. Andersen](/people/kristian-g-andersen.md) * [Robert F. Garry](/people/robert-f-garry.md) # Transcript **[2021-05-11T21:26:57] Edward C. Holmes:** As an aside, if you look at the gamey tastes figure you will see that some of the pangolins sold as food were sick. We've just done some SRA mining and found that the found the famous data produced by Liu et al. in that Viruses papers of 2019 also contains a pestivirus. And you wonder why disease emergence events happen. **[2021-05-11T21:43:16] Kristian G. Andersen:** As an aside - trying to dig into papers eDim and others describe as gain-of-function / GOF at WIV. This seems to bethe main (only?) one: https://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1006698.VERY clearly not GOF as defined here (they don't do serial passage, they don't create the chimeric viruses to be"better pathogens", they're not SARS, MERS, or flu, etc., etc. - and the chimeric viruses actually bind worse tohuman receptors than wildtype):https://www.phe.gov/s3/dualuse/documents/gain-of-function.pdfhttps://www.phe.gov/s3/dualuse/documents/p3co.pdfIt's total BS.Just FYI since this might come up in random conversation... **[2021-05-11T21:59:18] Edward C. Holmes:** Yes, that's biodiversity. No way GOF. **[2021-05-11T22:01:46] Kristian G. Andersen:** They make chimeric viruses in the paper (small part), but still not GOF. **[2021-05-11T22:05:31] Edward C. Holmes:** Ah, got it. **[2021-05-11T22:07:49] Edward C. Holmes:** They emailed us! **[2021-05-11T22:07:55] Kristian G. Andersen:** Aaaaaahahahahaha [shared file(s): Upcoming letter in Science] **[2021-05-11T22:10:41] Edward C. Holmes:** I'm not replying. I just won't be able to control my anger. **[2021-05-11T22:13:23] Kristian G. Andersen:** I'll sleep on it and wait for Andrew/Bob to chime in with what they think. I'm thinking a short email to say thanks and that we'd welcome further discussion (maybe an actual Zoom call? I'd be interested in that). I'll then include myprepared comments: _The core message of the letter is that the origins of COVID-19 should be investigated, which I think we all agreeon. The authors are correct that both hypotheses are possible, but current evidence points to a natural origin for SARS-CoV-2, as the WHO and others have concluded._ _Unfortunately, the letter suggests a false equivalence between the lab escape and natural origin scenarios. To this day, no credible evidence has been presented to… **[2021-05-11T22:16:24] Edward C. Holmes:** No way I'm talking to them. They should ashamed. **[2021-05-11T22:16:35] Kristian G. Andersen:** Appreciate Mike reaching out though - I'm pretty darn sure he must have been the one telling the others that that was going to be necessary. Very interestingly, I talked to Jon earlier today (more on that later) and he mentioned that in the very early days of HIV, Mike was convinced that it came from the polio vaccine - i.e., lab derived...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_polio_vaccine_AIDS_hypothesis **[2021-05-11T22:21:38] Edward C. Holmes:** They're willing authors on a paper will Alina who has directly accused me of being part of a conspiracy. Frankly, they can go fuck themselves. **[2021-05-11T22:23:07] Kristian G. Andersen:** I agree. However, they review my grants and papers :wink: **[2021-05-11T22:23:44] Kristian G. Andersen:** But I _should_ add - my quotes basically tells them they're idiots - and I _will_ call them out for their bullshit. **[2021-05-11T22:24:54] Edward C. Holmes:** I'm not replying. Not a chance. **[2021-05-11T22:25:08] Kristian G. Andersen:** Yeah, totally fair **[2021-05-11T22:29:03] Kristian G. Andersen:** What's the best single (short) sentence to describe the letter? "biased opinion piece ignoring all available data,presenting a false balance of available evidence". Any better? **[2021-05-11T22:30:36] Kristian G. Andersen:** The bigger problem, which is not in that sentence - it's hopelessly naive and uninformed... **[2021-05-11T22:32:30] Edward C. Holmes:** Somewhere I would add something like "completely misrepresents the remit and outcomes of the WHO report and presents a hopelessly naive plan of the next steps" **[2021-05-11T22:34:01] Edward C. Holmes:** For the stupid GIPA court case I'm meant to avoid getting involved in online debates. **[2021-05-11T22:34:33] Kristian G. Andersen:** Probably better for your own health to be honest... :wink: **[2021-05-11T22:35:58] Edward C. Holmes:** It is!! I take blood pressure meds as it is. **[2021-05-11T22:36:20] Kristian G. Andersen:** Beer for me. **[2021-05-11T22:36:40] Edward C. Holmes:** So jealous **[2021-05-11T22:37:09] Kristian G. Andersen:** To be honest, it doesn't actually bother me - I kinda like the chaos... Not the same for my wife though - it's very very hard on her. **[2021-05-11T22:38:02] Edward C. Holmes:** Same here. We've had weird stuff put in out mailbox. **[2021-05-11T22:40:54] Edward C. Holmes:** Wise move