--- type: Conversation title: Private channel session 1133 description: "slack conversation, 31 messages, 2021-03-20." tags: - conversation - slack medium: slack message_count: 31 started_at: "2021-03-20T06:51:07" ended_at: "2021-03-20T11:06:23" duration_seconds: 15316 sources: - { id: slack_pm, resource: /sources/slack-pm.md, title: Slack / Private Message Drop, author: "process:senate-hsgac-release" } generated: { by: randpaul-corpus-pipeline/1.0, at: "2026-08-01T12:42:27Z" } status: stable --- A slack conversation of 31 messages spanning 4h 15m. # Metadata - **Started:** 2021-03-20T06:51:07 - **Ended:** 2021-03-20T11:06:23 - **Duration:** 4h 15m - **Participants:** 3 - **Source:** [slack_pm](/sources/slack-pm.md) - **Pages:** 607-610 # Participants * [Andrew Rambaut](/people/andrew-rambaut.md) * [Edward C. Holmes](/people/edward-c-holmes.md) * [Kristian G. Andersen](/people/kristian-g-andersen.md) * [Robert F. Garry](/people/robert-f-garry.md) # Transcript **[2021-03-20T06:51:07] Robert F. Garry:** @Robert Garry Reminds me of Covidfaker. After his episode in the COVID spotlight and subsequent termination by NBC he spent the next year doing this: [shared file(s): image.png] **[2021-03-20T06:52:48] Robert F. Garry:** @Robert Garry You might ask about the feathers - it's not a permanent boa. **[2021-03-20T06:56:34] Robert F. Garry:** @Robert Garry It's St Michael the Archangel on his back protecting Covidfaker from Satan. Wiki: *Michael* leads God's armies against Satan's forces in the Book of Revelation, where during the war in heaven he defeats Satan. **[2021-03-20T07:10:04] Robert F. Garry:** @Robert Garry Can't make this stuff up. **[2021-03-20T07:31:30] Robert F. Garry:** Great reference to the Rolling Stones - Jagger clearly has his own demons but unlike some of the others [Alina, Yuri, Covidfaker] discussed herein is a true genus. **[2021-03-20T07:33:48] Robert F. Garry:** I am hoping Jessie dives in and comes to his senses. Alina is too far gone. **[2021-03-20T08:32:01] Robert F. Garry:** https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-5008?url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori%3Arid%3Acrossref.org&a mp;rfr_dat=cr_pub++0pubmed&"the real-world studies that detect viral RNA in the environment report very low levels, and few have isolated viable virus." In anticipation of the WHO report - which is likely to have a section about smoking racoon dogs - i think it's key. The most likely explanation for the high levels of virus on the grates under the animal cages is that the animals were infected. They were ab`le to grow virus out of 2 of the environmental samples. **[2021-03-20T08:50:57] Robert F. Garry:** well done @Eddie Holmes https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/03/19/979314118/next-pandemic-scien tists-fear-another-coronavirus-could-jump-from-animals-to-hum **[2021-03-20T08:59:09] Andrew Rambaut:** You can see why people want it to be a lab leak - this is much more scary. **[2021-03-20T09:14:06] Kristian G. Andersen:** I think we mentioned this on our very first call... Nature is way way more scary than lab. **[2021-03-20T09:18:31] Robert F. Garry:** Very good point - Daszak made a good one as well in the NPR - extrapolating the 3% serology to even a portion ofthe general population is a lot of sarbecovirus exposures - way more than a few lab ppl mist-netting at a few caves per year. **[2021-03-20T09:34:41] Kristian G. Andersen:** 3% - that may well be every ~6 months given (a) exposures likely very low titer, and (b) seroreversion to CoVs. Ithink it's safe to say that a huge number of people are exposed to CoVs on a daily basis - and not just in China. **[2021-03-20T09:34:59] Andrew Rambaut:** ~5% serology seems to be the baseline false positive for just about everything - see Ebola in Sierra Leone etc. **[2021-03-20T09:35:30] Kristian G. Andersen:** ... in Africa :wink:. That 2-3% number actually has pretty good baselines **[2021-03-20T09:36:00] Kristian G. Andersen:** Baseline sampled in e.g., Wuhan - of all places. **[2021-03-20T09:36:29] Andrew Rambaut:** OK - baseline cross-reactivity with some sort of CoV **[2021-03-20T09:36:52] Andrew Rambaut:** See waste-water in Europe in 2019 **[2021-03-20T09:40:06] Kristian G. Andersen:** The 2-3% serological studies were specifically for SARS-like CoVs, with good baselines - so they might well be accurate. But yeah, getting a positive hit on a CoV serological assay - without controlling very closely for background- you can get anything, anywhere. **[2021-03-20T09:42:02] Kristian G. Andersen:** Andrew - since you have a keen eye. Do you know which 'mystery' sequences and viruses Jesse is talking about? I'm quite confused. I think maybe he means these? https://twitter.com/K_G_Andersen/status/1373310963680571397?s=20 Clearly they must be fragments they have managed to successfully sequence, as they mention in the Nature addendum - so absolutely no mystery. Am I missing something? **[2021-03-20T09:43:44] Andrew Rambaut:** I was assuming it was those. Some RdRp PCR products I assume **[2021-03-20T09:44:18] Robert F. Garry:** Good to be discussing these points ahead of a likely burst of reporting with the relaese of the WHO report! I already have several reporters promising to call. **[2021-03-20T09:45:52] Kristian G. Andersen:** ... and then this slide showing that they have managed to get some spike sequences too? Clearly very distant. [shared file(s): EvVevMrXcAA_GmP.jpeg] **[2021-03-20T09:46:51] Kristian G. Andersen:** Also this tree, but I suspect that the same I just linked to, and yes, probably RdRp. Same IDs, so clearly the same. And clearly, they don't have the full genomes (because, well, bloody hard to do) [shared file(s):Ew35lxKU8AAbXdw.png] **[2021-03-20T09:50:18] Robert F. Garry:** @Andrew Rambaut points well taken re cross-reactivity - even the best seroassays are not 100% - the paper we referenced in PO1 and the one Daszak is talking about did look for cross-rxty with other covs. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12250-018-0012-7 cloned most of the known human covs and tested thoseas well as follow-up western blotting. my take is at least some sarbecovirus reactivity possible. **[2021-03-20T10:01:27] Robert F. Garry:** ...and the cdc paper - which i cant find now - showing seroreactivty to SC2 pre-pandemic was crap. **[2021-03-20T10:07:25] Robert F. Garry:** More crap: https://undark.org/2021/03/18/utterly-plausible-lab-leak-hypothesis/ **[2021-03-20T10:14:43] Robert F. Garry:** Reality: Every one of the zoo's panthers are equipped with chips. The instant the animal left it's perimeter, alertswere sounded and a team was sent to capture it before it escaped the zoo, The zoo has large fence around itsperimeter as well. **[2021-03-20T10:29:40] Robert F. Garry:** https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/03/major-coronavirus-variant-found-pets-first-time:black_cat::cat2::dog2: ohmy. **[2021-03-20T10:31:31] Robert F. Garry:** So --- if it's true that SC2 a "generalist" virus, is it rapidly now becoming more of a generalist virus??? **[2021-03-20T10:49:24] Robert F. Garry:** AS for the panthers there have been 125 panther attacks in the US in the past 100 years - 27 fatalities. All of the attacks were wild panthers - none had escaped from a zoo. **[2021-03-20T11:06:23] Robert F. Garry:** But there is a hypothetical chance that pathers could escape from a zoo, so best- i guess it will be argued - just toshut down all the zoos.