--- type: Conversation title: Private channel session 1076 description: "slack conversation, 30 messages, 2021-03-08." tags: - conversation - slack medium: slack message_count: 30 started_at: "2021-03-08T12:40:57" ended_at: "2021-03-08T16:05:18" duration_seconds: 12261 sources: - { id: slack_pm, resource: /sources/slack-pm.md, title: Slack / Private Message Drop, author: "process:senate-hsgac-release" } generated: { by: randpaul-corpus-pipeline/1.0, at: "2026-08-01T12:42:27Z" } status: stable --- A slack conversation of 30 messages spanning 3h 24m. # Metadata - **Started:** 2021-03-08T12:40:57 - **Ended:** 2021-03-08T16:05:18 - **Duration:** 3h 24m - **Participants:** 4 - **Source:** [slack_pm](/sources/slack-pm.md) - **Pages:** 575-577 # Participants * [Andrew Rambaut](/people/andrew-rambaut.md) * [Edward C. Holmes](/people/edward-c-holmes.md) * [Kristian G. Andersen](/people/kristian-g-andersen.md) * [Robert F. Garry](/people/robert-f-garry.md) # Transcript **[2021-03-08T12:40:57] Edward C. Holmes:** Simone is a straight reporter. I don't think she believes lab escape. **[2021-03-08T13:09:34] Robert F. Garry:** "Others argue it is possible there were viruses in the lab, or handled during research, that were not publicly known." This is it in a nutshell - good on Simone for writing it. The fact that the virus emerged in Wuhan are what Alina and her crowd have left PLUS the theories that WIV had SARS-CoV-2 or something very close from *nature* before the pandemic. **[2021-03-08T13:18:54] Robert F. Garry:** Billy aka Kevin has written a poem about @Kristian Andersen. He and Nicholson Baker should write something together. [shared file(s): image.png] **[2021-03-08T13:19:05] Kristian G. Andersen:** Andrew's tweet is spot on for that exact scenario [shared file(s): Screen Shot 2021-03-08 at 1.18.39 PM.png] **[2021-03-08T13:19:47] Kristian G. Andersen:** I like that poem - clever. I should frame it. Thanks Billy. **[2021-03-08T13:27:21] Edward C. Holmes:** Such great work from Billy. I'm just surprised he can't get financed. **[2021-03-08T13:31:00] Kristian G. Andersen:** Maybe he should try selling poetry on Amazon - happy to provide him with material. **[2021-03-08T13:51:32] Edward C. Holmes:** Given how cock obsessed Billy is it's not hard to imagine how microscopic his own member must be. I also suspectit requires its own gain of function. **[2021-03-08T14:16:41] Andrew Rambaut:** I was going to ask - how hard is it to collect samples with cultureable viruses? From what I am hearing it is difficult toculture SARS-CoV-2 from many samples so I would imagine sampling bats (say) you would be just hoping for RNA rather than infectious virus. **[2021-03-08T14:45:20] Robert F. Garry:** Yes - hard to culture from natural samples. First issue is you are getting animals that are likely at different stages ininfections - early, late, persistent, recovering - who knows? We don't know how long viremia lasts in Mastomys with Lassa virus. Seems much lower than in humans. Rabies - long term infections, bats carry for a loooong time eventually some [all?] get sick. For SC2 from humans unless the Ct values are really low say low 20s it's very difficult. Not to say that there is not infectious virus there and that under the right circumstance (inhaling it directly into the nasal passages or lungs even a fairly low may be all it takes. I'm just guessing but unlikely bats would… **[2021-03-08T14:54:07] Andrew Rambaut:** And if you just out sampling to look for diversity you are probably going to store the samples to preserve RNA rather than hope to culture anything. **[2021-03-08T14:55:51] Robert F. Garry:** Yes - you might try to get lucky and if your cold chain was good freeze some sample away, but RNA Is the way to goin most field situations. **[2021-03-08T14:58:49] Robert F. Garry:** But - most likely - screening by culturing is not going to be a sensitive as screening the RNA, if you know what you are doing with the RNA . **[2021-03-08T14:58:51] Edward C. Holmes:** We and colleagues do this all the time. The plan is always to get into a cold chain as quick as possible for sequencing. We do have a portable -80C we use in some cases, but it's usually a case of storage in RNAlater. **[2021-03-08T15:02:25] Robert F. Garry:** In general the RNA (even fragmented non-infectious) hangs a lot longer than any infectious virus. **[2021-03-08T15:04:14] Kristian G. Andersen:** Yeah, culturing viruses from bats or any other animal = bloody hard. I wouldn't be surprised that if you had 50 bats all infected with SC2, you'd only be able to grow it out of one of those. **[2021-03-08T15:04:38] Robert F. Garry:** Explains some of the problems in the diagnostic space - Start mixing in detection with antigen assays [which correlates not so well with infectious virus or RNA] and it gets complicated fast. **[2021-03-08T15:06:43] Andrew Rambaut:** But that means these ideas about WIV sampling viruses from the wild and one of the accidentally escapes might bewrong? **[2021-03-08T15:07:34] Kristian G. Andersen:** I think most of those people underestimate how incredibly hard it is to grow stuff from such samples, yes. **[2021-03-08T15:07:52] Robert F. Garry:** Screening species with serology though I think is the way to go - that is why Lin-Fa's ACE2BOB makes sense - find the species that have antibodies then trap the hell out of them until you get lucky and hit one at peak viremia/RNA. **[2021-03-08T15:07:57] Kristian G. Andersen:** I think they assume - 10,000 samples = 10,000 chances for SC2 to hop out of a tube. Nope. **[2021-03-08T15:08:39] Robert F. Garry:** @Andrew Rambaut Hammer hits nail! **[2021-03-08T15:09:34] Kristian G. Andersen:** There's virtually _zero_ chance a virus could leak out of a tube - if they culture to high titers, sure - but again, in most circumstances that's not going to be possible because it's so hard to grow anything out of a primary sample. **[2021-03-08T15:11:59] Robert F. Garry:** That and they should be doing it with at least an N95 and better yet a PAPR. Damn sure have my ppl in a PAPR/class 2 hood if they are trying to grow virus in large amts. **[2021-03-08T15:12:39] Kristian G. Andersen:** Yes, Bob, but these are Chinese scientists - they're clueless, you know. **[2021-03-08T15:12:46] Kristian G. Andersen:** :face_with_rolling_eyes: **[2021-03-08T15:13:38] Robert F. Garry:** Indeed but they're miles ahead of The Parisites(R) , who are so out of their depth it is really NOT at all funny. **[2021-03-08T15:54:28] Edward C. Holmes:** And why would they possibly be culturing a random bat virus which was not associated with the miners outbreak (because they published a partial sequence of RaT13 years ago)? **[2021-03-08T16:02:00] Kristian G. Andersen:** BECAUSE Eddie! Just Because!!! **[2021-03-08T16:05:18] Edward C. Holmes:** Fuck, you're right.