--- type: Conversation title: Private channel session 675 description: "slack conversation, 30 messages, 2020-12-14." tags: - conversation - slack medium: slack message_count: 30 started_at: "2020-12-14T14:43:29" ended_at: "2020-12-14T18:17:45" duration_seconds: 12856 sources: - { id: slack_pm, resource: /sources/slack-pm.md, title: Slack / Private Message Drop, author: "process:senate-hsgac-release" } generated: { by: randpaul-corpus-pipeline/1.0, at: "2026-08-01T12:42:27Z" } status: stable --- A slack conversation of 30 messages spanning 3h 34m. # Metadata - **Started:** 2020-12-14T14:43:29 - **Ended:** 2020-12-14T18:17:45 - **Duration:** 3h 34m - **Participants:** 4 - **Source:** [slack_pm](/sources/slack-pm.md) - **Pages:** 313-316 # Participants * [Andrew Rambaut](/people/andrew-rambaut.md) * [Edward C. Holmes](/people/edward-c-holmes.md) * [Kristian G. Andersen](/people/kristian-g-andersen.md) * [Robert F. Garry](/people/robert-f-garry.md) # Transcript **[2020-12-14T14:43:29] Robert F. Garry:** Here's your FOI friends Eddie - they apparently got about a TB of Baric's emails. https://usrtk.org/biohazards-blog/new-emails-show-scientists-deliberations-on-how-to-discuss-sars-cov-2-origins/ **[2020-12-14T14:46:36] Andrew Rambaut:** ```In one email, dated Feb. 4, infectious disease expert Trevor Bedford commented: "I wouldn't mention binding sites here. If you start weighing evidence there's a lot to consider for both scenarios." By "both scenarios," Bedford appears to refer to lab-origin and natural-origin scenarios.``` **[2020-12-14T14:50:00] Andrew Rambaut:** Interesting - the emails seem to be all scanned PDFs - so you can't search them electronically - is that a normaltactic to a FOI? **[2020-12-14T14:56:58] Robert F. Garry:** Come to think of it - scanned pdfs are usually how NIH responds to FOIA requests. I haven't looked closely at themotherload of Baric emails, but personal stuff is usually exempt - ie. invasion of of privacy. Maybe other countries are different, but I would think that most of the correspondence between members of this this Slack channel wouldbe retracted as either personal or a trade secret. I've had FOIA request where most of the pages were redacted inblack. For example MOST of my correspondence with NIH program officers. What Can I Obtain with a FOIA Request? Under the FOIA and the FCC's implementing rules, you are allowed to obtain copies of FCC records unless the records contain… **[2020-12-14T15:46:57] Kristian G. Andersen:** I love the fact that my email is so prominently displayed. https://usrtk.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/NASEM_Andersen-Email_Baric-1.pdf **[2020-12-14T15:50:24] Kristian G. Andersen:** Oh, but I SO want to search all those emails - I'm CONVINCED Baric has been saying shit about us and it all gottabe in there somewhere. I'm sure the DRASTIC folks will transcribe these. **[2020-12-14T15:51:25] Kristian G. Andersen:** I LOVE this bit from Trevor... :wink: [shared file(s): Screen Shot 2020-12-14 at 15.51.03.png] **[2020-12-14T16:00:57] Andrew Rambaut:** You came out of it well with that email. Pretty much lays out what said in PO. **[2020-12-14T16:01:21] Andrew Rambaut:** Why don't you download the lot and run it through some OCR **[2020-12-14T16:02:07] Kristian G. Andersen:** .... already doing it. I want to nail Deep Throat. **[2020-12-14T16:24:56] Edward C. Holmes:** That's just between Andrew and I and because it does not discuss the paper per se I think I don't have to include it. **[2020-12-14T16:26:01] Kristian G. Andersen:** Hahaha, can't WAIT to see those emails on the internet - and it's fair - it shows that we too think he's an arse. **[2020-12-14T16:26:02] Andrew Rambaut:** Also discuss personal medical history of a person. **[2020-12-14T16:26:25] Kristian G. Andersen:** Ohhhh - HIPAA **[2020-12-14T16:29:16] Edward C. Holmes:** Yes, no way the lawyers will allow those to go up. I not quite sure how I'm going to explain it all them though.? **[2020-12-14T16:29:51] Andrew Rambaut:** Out of interest what is the situation with Slack? Presumably that is private communication? **[2020-12-14T16:30:12] Edward C. Holmes:** Great quote for Bob which we should definitely put out "I think the approach for the paper should be totally agnostic."Slack is private. **[2020-12-14T16:44:42] Kristian G. Andersen:** Oh boy. :clown_face: **[2020-12-14T16:51:31] Edward C. Holmes:** Aside from the crudity, what the emails show I think is that we took lab escape very seriously and that we genuinely worried about it. They do show that Jeremy was involved though and I can see that causing a stir....but there's zero smoking guns. Absolutely nothing. **[2020-12-14T16:52:48] Kristian G. Andersen:** I'm pretty sure we'll come out better by people seeing those emails - it should be clear that this is a thorough investigation. **[2020-12-14T16:55:42] Kristian G. Andersen:** Eddie, what's the language in the FOIA request? Can they even request this - I mean, US organization and you're inAustralia **[2020-12-14T17:02:19] Kristian G. Andersen:** Okie dokie - all good. Reading through our old emails, it's all good stuff + terrible jokes - I'm totally ok with that :wink: **[2020-12-14T17:09:20] Edward C. Holmes:** Yes, it's just shitty jokes. I can't see usrtk.org going much better than "Emails reveal proximal origins authors'lamentable use of puns". **[2020-12-14T17:12:08] Andrew Rambaut:** "I have to say that I am disappointed that he has not threatened to fuck my mother after our trashing of snake flu." -Eddie **[2020-12-14T17:16:26] Edward C. Holmes:** I stand by that statement. **[2020-12-14T17:50:18] Kristian G. Andersen:** Boys, I win the day - this too I predicted. Apparently... [shared file(s): Screen Shot 2020-12-14 at 5.49.32 PM.png] **[2020-12-14T17:51:30] Kristian G. Andersen:** Although, Andrew gets some points for his response to my email too... :wink: [shared file(s): Screen Shot 2020-12-14 at 5.50.59 PM.png] **[2020-12-14T18:02:34] Edward C. Holmes:** That one is definitely in. **[2020-12-14T18:16:07] Robert F. Garry:** The most likely emails of ours that could *possibly* be FOIAed are the ones with .gov email recipients. I don't think any of those are harmful - on the contrary. **[2020-12-14T18:17:45] Robert F. Garry:** I do want our suggested name of Wuhan Turtle Flu virus to show up somewhere.