---
type: Conversation
title: Private channel session 590
description: "slack conversation, 17 messages, 2020-11-21."
tags:
  - conversation
  - slack
medium: slack
message_count: 17
started_at: "2020-11-21T06:22:25"
ended_at: "2020-11-21T08:13:47"
duration_seconds: 6682
sources:
  - { id: slack_pm, resource: /sources/slack-pm.md, title: Slack / Private Message Drop, author: "process:senate-hsgac-release" }
generated: { by: randpaul-corpus-pipeline/1.0, at: "2026-08-01T12:42:27Z" }
status: stable
---

A slack conversation of 17 messages spanning 1h 51m.

# Metadata

- **Started:** 2020-11-21T06:22:25
- **Ended:** 2020-11-21T08:13:47
- **Duration:** 1h 51m
- **Participants:** 3
- **Source:** [slack_pm](/sources/slack-pm.md)
- **Pages:** 268-271

# Participants

* [Andrew Rambaut](/people/andrew-rambaut.md)
* [Edward C. Holmes](/people/edward-c-holmes.md)
* [Kristian G. Andersen](/people/kristian-g-andersen.md)
* [Robert F. Garry](/people/robert-f-garry.md)

# Transcript

**[2020-11-21T06:22:25] Robert F. Garry:** Thanks for the link Andrew - great list...

**[2020-11-21T07:17:54] Robert F. Garry:** *I do agree that Proximal Origins 2 should happen sooner than later - just not certain of the best approach or approaches -we seem to have attracted some attention with PO1 so a sequel - given the persistence of the unnatural crowd would likely be noticed. @Andrew Rambaut has made a good start. Virological posts for sure - another correspondence in Nature/Nat Med - And, though it might be considered bad form but I could even see a hard cover book for popular consumption (lot of work, but might be worth it).*

**[2020-11-21T07:18:33] Robert F. Garry:** *Naturally occurring indels in multiple coronavirus spikes* *Introduction* Proponents of theories for the unnatural origin of SARS-CoV-2 have asserted that the 12 nucleotide insert in the SARS-CoV-2 spike gene, which results in acquisition of a furin cleavage site, may have arisen by laboratory manipulation (Relman, 2020; Segreto and Deigin, 2020; Seyran et al., 2020; Sirotkin and Sirotkin, 2020). Here, wecompile evidence demonstrating that that insertion/deletion (indel) events at the S1/S2 and S2' protease cleavage sites of the spike precursor are commonly occurring natural features of coronavirus evolution. We also identifyheretofore undescribed similarities in the S1/S2 and S2'…

**[2020-11-21T07:38:13] Robert F. Garry:** Slightly different subject, but looking forward to an updated Nidovirus phylogenic tree with some of Eddie and company's new viruses.

**[2020-11-21T07:39:55] Kristian G. Andersen:** Bob, great post - get it on there! Now!

**[2020-11-21T07:40:46] Kristian G. Andersen:** Andrew, yes, thanks for sharing - great points in there. "Did the acquisition of the ACE2 RBD make the virus more species-promiscuous and thus facilitated emergence into farmed carnivores like raccoon-dogs/pangolins? Highdensity transmission in carnivores may have evolved the FCS - i.e., like chickens & high-path AIV."I actually think that's due to the FCS - it's been shown before that FCS increases the hostrange of other coronaviruses, including MERS-like - one reference: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31801868/. Key sentence here: "Together, these results indicate that proteolytic cleavage of the spike, not receptor binding, is the primary infection barrier for these two group 2c CoVs".

**[2020-11-21T07:40:56] Robert F. Garry:** some of the serpentoviruses and nonCoV nidos have interesting mucin-like domains

**[2020-11-21T07:44:05] Kristian G. Andersen:** The O-linked glycans very likely regulates the FCS site - I don't think it's a mucin-like domain

**[2020-11-21T07:45:37] Robert F. Garry:** agree - thou with some of the other Nido spikes there are more than a dozen o-linked sites so mucin-like

**[2020-11-21T07:48:16] Kristian G. Andersen:** Here's the reference for the FCS control: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28924042/

**[2020-11-21T07:57:21] Robert F. Garry:** Yes - very pertinent which means I need to add this reference and you as a co-author -you already pointed me to the feline CoVs OK? Also OK to add Andrew and Eddie in acknowledgents for helpful discussions and encouragement?Alternatively I think Andrew and Eddie rise to authorship as well - putting all the PO1 authors on minus Ian but plus Prof Bill in A Virological would certainly garner some attention and stir up the Chan, Yan , Relman and Billy krewe.

**[2020-11-21T08:03:46] Kristian G. Andersen:** I think this is a clear Bob Garry investigation, so no need to add me - but yeah, add us all in acknowledgments :wink:

**[2020-11-21T08:04:44] Kristian G. Andersen:** [unless you're scared to face the trolls on your own... :wink: ]

**[2020-11-21T08:04:51] Andrew Rambaut:** It would be interesting to test an SC2 with a FCS deletion in ferrets

**[2020-11-21T08:06:35] Kristian G. Andersen:** Agreed - Bob and I have discussed these types of experiments previously. Would also be important to do the same in e.g., human lung cells. Don't know if there's an isolate without the FCS though?

**[2020-11-21T08:12:13] Robert F. Garry:** The deletion is nonpathogenic in hamsters, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7457603/ but yes ferret abetter model. Tulane primate center and other doing monkeys but I don't know latest results.

**[2020-11-21T08:13:47] Kristian G. Andersen:** Yeah, ferrets better - and question is - will it pick it up if passaged in ferrets? I bet this whole thing could easily relateto farming of mustelids.