---
type: Conversation
title: Private channel session 381
description: "slack conversation, 40 messages, 2020-09-14."
tags:
  - conversation
  - slack
medium: slack
message_count: 40
started_at: "2020-09-14T22:54:35"
ended_at: "2020-09-14T23:47:45"
duration_seconds: 3190
sources:
  - { id: slack_pm, resource: /sources/slack-pm.md, title: Slack / Private Message Drop, author: "process:senate-hsgac-release" }
generated: { by: randpaul-corpus-pipeline/1.0, at: "2026-08-01T12:42:27Z" }
status: stable
---

A slack conversation of 40 messages spanning 0h 53m.

# Metadata

- **Started:** 2020-09-14T22:54:35
- **Ended:** 2020-09-14T23:47:45
- **Duration:** 0h 53m
- **Participants:** 3
- **Source:** [slack_pm](/sources/slack-pm.md)
- **Pages:** 165-168

# Participants

* [Andrew Rambaut](/people/andrew-rambaut.md)
* [Edward C. Holmes](/people/edward-c-holmes.md)
* [Kristian G. Andersen](/people/kristian-g-andersen.md)
* [Robert F. Garry](/people/robert-f-garry.md)

# Transcript

**[2020-09-14T22:54:35] Andrew Rambaut:** Can someone fill me in - what is the 'Yan Report' and why is it being given consideration?

**[2020-09-14T22:57:40] Kristian G. Andersen:** @Kristian Andersen She's the scientist who's been making the round on Fox News (and other conservative media) for months alleging that SARS-CoV-2 came from the lab. She's got decent credentials, so the right is listening. This is her report... Cherry picking and ignoring all recent data.

**[2020-09-14T22:59:37] Andrew Rambaut:** And they say that 'ZC45' is the progenitor. Nuts.

**[2020-09-14T23:01:40] Kristian G. Andersen:** They say a lot of things... But yeah, ZC45 was the template... (they might want to look at the alignment again...)

**[2020-09-14T23:03:32] Andrew Rambaut:** 3690 nucleotide differences between ZC45 and SC2. That is a lot of engineering.

**[2020-09-14T23:05:22] Kristian G. Andersen:** "Accelerated evolution", of course. They _completely_ ignore the new pangolin and bat CoVs (since they're fake). If they had included them, all their arguments go away.

**[2020-09-14T23:08:45] Andrew Rambaut:** I wonder what Jon's angle is then? He emailed me but with nothing but the 'report' in the email.

**[2020-09-14T23:10:04] Kristian G. Andersen:** Same here - I'm not sure what his angle is either, but sounds like Eddie talked to him.

**[2020-09-14T23:31:05] Andrew Rambaut:** I just replied to say 3690 nucleotide differences.

**[2020-09-14T23:31:21] Edward C. Holmes:** I was just about ask about how many nt differences there were between ZC45 and SC2. Thanks for that. I think Jon thinks it's shite. He noted all the ifs, buts and maybes. And the smoking gun in underlined bold font.

**[2020-09-14T23:31:52] Edward C. Holmes:** I think they used the conspiracy theory template in Word.

**[2020-09-14T23:32:37] Kristian G. Andersen:** That smoking gun is present in RaTG13 as well... So hardly a smoking gun - it's a conserved sequence

**[2020-09-14T23:32:57] Andrew Rambaut:** It is funny that they have killed RaTG13 as evidence so now have to find something else.

**[2020-09-14T23:33:03] Kristian G. Andersen:** [Trust me - I looked for these. Hard :wink: ]

**[2020-09-14T23:33:33] Kristian G. Andersen:** Yeah - it's remarkable how they dismiss all the new sequences - because they're fake. We have idiots like Alina tothank for that.

**[2020-09-14T23:33:59] Edward C. Holmes:** Now, you see I thought that the conspiracy theory was manipulation from RaTG13 itself from miners? It's just SO hard to keep up!

**[2020-09-14T23:34:37] Kristian G. Andersen:** Oh, yes - of course. Followed by accelerated evolution in lungs to create SARS2

**[2020-09-14T23:35:01] Kristian G. Andersen:** Where it's been hiding out since that mine thingie, I'm not sure - but probably a freezer or something.

**[2020-09-14T23:35:13] Edward C. Holmes:** Does this mean that these conspiracy theorists think the other conspiracy theorists are conspiracy theorists for suggesting that RaTG13 is real? I need to know.

**[2020-09-14T23:35:41] Kristian G. Andersen:** Nah, that's just a conspiracy theory.

**[2020-09-14T23:36:42] Andrew Rambaut:** Just saw this - ```In fact, a Chinese BSL-3 lab (the Shanghai Public Health Clinical Centre), which published a Nature article reporting a conflicting close phylogenetic relationship between SARS- 35 36 CoV-2 and ZC45/ZXC21 rather than with RaTG13 , was quickly shut down for "rectification" . It is believed that the researchers of that laboratory were being punished for having disclosed the SARS-CoV-2--ZC45/ZXC21connection.``` They don't notice that that you are on that paper, Eddie?

**[2020-09-14T23:37:57] Edward C. Holmes:** So, am I in the conspiracy or not?

**[2020-09-14T23:38:55] Edward C. Holmes:** The rectification was for publishing the sequence, not the link to ZC45.

**[2020-09-14T23:40:00] Kristian G. Andersen:** Well, they do cite your CV, so there's that.

**[2020-09-14T23:40:20] Edward C. Holmes:** Do I get a citation?

**[2020-09-14T23:40:29] Kristian G. Andersen:** Oh yes

**[2020-09-14T23:40:42] Edward C. Holmes:** I'm all for it then.

**[2020-09-14T23:41:07] Andrew Rambaut:** Ooh. Just saw this bit: ```Since many phylogenetic analyses categorize coronaviruses based on the sequence similarity of the RdRp gene only SARS-CoV-2 and ZC45/ZXC21 are separated into different groups/sub-lineages in phylogenetic studies.``` So they are saying 'they' used RdRp from a different virus to confuse phylogenetics!

**[2020-09-14T23:41:16] Kristian G. Andersen:** shared file(s): Screen Shot 2020-09-14 at 11.40.57 PM.png

**[2020-09-14T23:41:43] Andrew Rambaut:** Then they constructed RaTG13 with that RdRp as well to act as a decoy.

**[2020-09-14T23:41:47] Edward C. Holmes:** Fuck, that's cunning.

**[2020-09-14T23:41:56] Andrew Rambaut:** But forgot to put the RBD or furin site in.

**[2020-09-14T23:42:19] Edward C. Holmes:** It was a busy day - they had the lab to bleach.

**[2020-09-14T23:42:44] Kristian G. Andersen:** They put a restriction site INSIDE the furin site so they can follow the viruses over time - it's all very clever.

**[2020-09-14T23:43:35] Andrew Rambaut:** I wonder if they encoded any secret messages in the synonymous codon usage?

**[2020-09-14T23:44:06] Andrew Rambaut:** "made in China"

**[2020-09-14T23:44:16] Kristian G. Andersen:** Ohhhh - maybe they put "Eddie Holmes" in there

**[2020-09-14T23:44:50] Kristian G. Andersen:** Now THAT"D be a smoking gun. Actually - we might want to scan to see if there's a "Made in USA" in there - that seems more likely.

**[2020-09-14T23:45:55] Edward C. Holmes:** Made in China would be perfect. Then they'd be moaning about all the cheap foreign imports.

**[2020-09-14T23:47:45] Edward C. Holmes:** 'Kung flu. Patent pending'.