--- type: Conversation title: pave - please clarify description: "email conversation, 18 messages, 2003-10-24." tags: - conversation - email medium: email message_count: 18 started_at: "2003-10-24T15:49:00" ended_at: "2003-10-26T00:24:19" duration_seconds: 117319 sources: - { id: gates, resource: /sources/gates.md, title: Gates Package, author: "process:senate-hsgac-release", last_modified: 2026-07-31 } generated: { by: randpaul-corpus-pipeline/1.0, at: "2026-08-01T12:42:27Z" } status: stable --- A email conversation of 18 messages spanning 32h 35m. # Metadata - **Started:** 2003-10-24T15:49:00 - **Ended:** 2003-10-26T00:24:19 - **Duration:** 32h 35m - **Participants:** 19 - **Source:** [gates](/sources/gates.md) - **Pages:** 264-273 # Participants * [Anthony S. Fauci](/people/anthony-s-fauci.md) * [Ed Tramont](/people/ed-tramont.md) * John * John * [John La Montagne](/people/john-la-montagne.md) * Johnston * [La Montagne](/people/la-montagne.md) * Marg * Marg * [Marg Moore](/people/marg-moore.md) * Margaret * [Margaret Johnston](/people/margaret-johnston.md) * Moore * Moore * [Richard Klausner](/people/richard-klausner.md) * Tramont # Transcript **[2003-10-24T15:49:00] Richard Klausner:** I just came back from speaking at the HVTN and there, as anywhere I go and HIV vaccines are discussed, I am asked about PAVE. Particularly now that PAVE seems to be setting up the same committees the Enterprise agreed to set up and asking some of the same people. I don't know what to tell people, especially since, in marked contrast to the Enterprise, the Gates Foundation has never been talked to about this (none of us). So I talk about how well we are working together, etc etc but everyone I speak to (I never bring it up) seems confused. I am sure that PAVE pre-dated our meetings in the Spring of 2002 about an enterprise approach but we really need to know how to respond about this. You… **[2003-10-24T15:49:00] Richard Klausner:** I just came back from speaking at the HVTN and there, as anywhere I go and HIV vaccines are discussed, I am asked about PAVE. Particularly now that PAVE seems to be setting up the same committees the Enterprise agreed to set up and asking some of the same people. I don't know what to tell people, especially since, in marked contrast to the Enterprise, the Gates Foundation has never been talked to about this (none of us). So I talk about how well we are working together, etc etc but everyone I speak to (I never bring it up) seems confused. I am sure that PAVE pre-dated our meetings in the Spring of 2002 about an enterprise approach but we really need to know how to respond about this. You… **[2003-10-24T15:49:00] Richard Klausner:** I just came back from speaking at the HVTN and there, as anywhere I go and HIV vaccines are discussed, I am asked about PAVE. Particularly now that PAVE seems to be setting up the same committees the Enterprise agreed to set up and asking some of the same people. I don't know what to tell people, especially since, in marked contrast to the Enterprise, the Gates Foundation has never been talked to about this (none of us). So I talk about how well we are working together, etc etc but everyone I speak to (I never bring it up) seems confused. I am sure that PAVE pre-dated our meetings in the Spring of 2002 about an enterprise approach but we really need to know how to respond about this. You… **[2003-10-24T15:49:00] Richard Klausner:** > >I just came back from speaking at the HVTN and there, as anywhere I go >and HIV vaccines are discussed, I am asked about PAVE. Particularly now >that PAVE seems to be setting up the same committees the Enterprise >agreed to set up and asking some of the same people. I don't know what >to tell people, especially since, in marked contrast to the Enterprise, >the Gates Foundation has never been talked to about this (none of us). >So I talk about how well we are working together, etc etc but everyone >I speak to (I never bring it up) seems confused. I am sure that PAVE >pre-dated our meetings in the Spring of 2002 about an enterprise >approach but we really need to know how to respond about… **[2003-10-24T15:49:04] unknown:** I just came back from speaking at the HVTN and there, as anywhere I go and HIV vaccines are discussed, I am asked about PAVE. Particularly now that PAVE seems to be setting up the same committees the Enterprise agreed to set up and asking some of the same people. I don't know what to tell people, especially since, in marked contrast to the Enterprise, the Gates Foundation has never been talked to about this (none of us). So I talk about how well we are working together, etc etc but everyone I speak to (I never bring it up) seems confused. I am sure that PAVE pre-dated our meetings in the Spring of 2002 about an enterprise approach but we really need to know how to respond about this. You… **[2003-10-24T17:20:00] Anthony S. Fauci:** Rick: Two things: 1) I really do not have any idea what you are talking about, and 2) I am very, very sorry that you are upset and obviously angry. I cannot figure out what the issue is. I have been saying and doing nothing more or less than what we have discussed many times. The PAVE is a partnership of government agencies facilitated by NIAID. We have been planning this for a long time and it relates only to clinical trials, particularly phase 3 trials. It was further instigated by DHHS wanting to have consistency in what we do among agencies (NIH and CDC). Since the NIAID has developed a strong relationship with the DoD, they have been brought into this partnership now consisting of 3… **[2003-10-24T17:20:00] Anthony S. Fauci:** Rick: Two things: 1) I really do not have any idea what you are talking about, and 2) I am very, very sorry that you are upset and obviously angry. I cannot figure out what the issue is. I have been saying and doing nothing more or less than what we have discussed many times. The PAVE is a partnership of government agencies facilitated by NIAID. We have been planning this for a long time and it relates only to clinical trials, particularly phase 3 trials. It was further instigated by DHHS wanting to have consistency in what we do among agencies (NIH and CDC). Since the NIAID has developed a strong relationship with the DoD, they have been brought into this partnership now consisting of 3… **[2003-10-24T20:20:00] Anthony S. Fauci:** Rick: Two things: 1) I really do not have any idea what you are talking about, and 2) I am very, very sorry that you are upset and obviously angry. I cannot figure out what the issue is. I have been saying and doing nothing more or less than what we have discussed many times. The PAVE is a partnership of government agencies facilitated by NIAID. We have been planning this for a long time and it relates only to clinical trials, particularly phase 3 trials. It was further instigated by DHHS wanting to have consistency in what we do among agencies (NIH and CDC). Since the NIAID has developed a strong relationship with the DoD, they have been brought into this partnership now consisting of 3… **[2003-10-24T20:20:00] Anthony S. Fauci:** > >Rick: > Two things: 1) I really do not have any idea what you are >talking about, and 2) I am very, very sorry that you are upset and >obviously angry. I cannot figure out what the issue is. I have been >saying and doing nothing more or less than what we have discussed many >times. The PAVE is a partnership of government agencies facilitated by >NIAID. We have been planning this for a long time and it relates only >to clinical trials, particularly phase 3 trials. It was further >instigated by DHHS wanting to have consistency in what we do among >agencies (NIH and CDC). Since the NIAID has developed a strong >relationship with the DoD, they have been brought into this partnership >now… **[2003-10-24T20:23:00] Anthony S. Fauci:** Ed: This is the e-mail that Rick sent to me and my response to him. What is going on here? Please touch bases with Peggy and then get back to me as to what you think is happening here? Who has been instigating Rick? Tony **[2003-10-24T20:23:00] Anthony S. Fauci:** > >Ed: > This is the e-mail that Rick sent to me and my response to him. >What is going on here? Please touch bases with Peggy and then get back >to me as to what you think is happening here? Who has been instigating >Rick? >Tony > > -----Original Message----- **[2003-10-25T10:36:45] Richard Klausner:** Tony, I keep looking at my email to you to see whether it sounded angry, which I was not, or just confused and truly looking for clarification. Maybe this is what happens through the terseness of a quick email. I am confused about PAVE and fully recognize that much of this confusion is because of information/perceptions that come via the filter of others. This was particularly intense at the HVTN meeting and especially with Europeans and Africans who seem (they are explicit) to be worried, threatened, wary of "an American Takeover" (I am not sure what is beneath it except that the distrust of the USG is so enormous around the world). When I say that PAVE is for USG coordination, that you… **[2003-10-25T10:37:00] Richard Klausner:** Tony, I keep looking at my email to you to see whether it sounded angry, which I was not, or just confused and truly looking for clarification. Maybe this is what happens through the terseness of a quick email. I am confused about PAVE and fully recognize that much of this confusion is because of information/perceptions that come via the filter of others. This was particularly intense at the HVTN meeting and especially with Europeans and Africans who seem (they are explicit) to be worried, threatened, wary of "an American Takeover" (I am not sure what is beneath it except that the distrust of the USG is so enormous around the world). When I say that PAVE is for USG coordination, that you… **[2003-10-25T10:51:00] Ed Tramont:** Tony, thanks for sharing with us - I think that your response is right on the money. But I can speculate: (1) those asking have little idea of what a vaccine strategic plan is - because if they did, they would not be focusing on PAVE in the context of vaccine R&D as it addresses only one part; by that I mean that a vaccine or any product R&D progresses from discovery to product development/QA/QC manufacturing to clinical trials and PAVE addresses only the conduct of clinical trials; (2) there is growing recognition that NIAID has these steps covered, albeit with funding restrictions, and people are using PAVE as a sedge way for them to ask how the Enterprise will be of value added to our… **[2003-10-25T10:51:03] Ed Tramont:** Tony, thanks for sharing with us - I think that your response is right on the money. But I can speculate: (1) those asking have little idea of what a vaccine strategic plan is - because if they did, they would not be focusing on PAVE in the context of vaccine R&D as it addresses only one part; by that I mean that a vaccine or any product R&D progresses from discovery to product development/QA/QC manufacturing to clinical trials and PAVE addresses only the conduct of clinical trials; (2) there is growing recognition that NIAID has these steps covered, albeit with funding restrictions, and people are using PAVE as a sedge way for them to ask how the Enterprise will be of value added to our… **[2003-10-25T15:51:00] Anthony S. Fauci:** Rick: As I had mentioned in my e-mail and illustrated in the slides that I sent to you, you are correct that PAVE is for USG coordination, but also, if others want to participate, they are most welcome. Importantly, PAVE only relates to clinical trials and Enterprise is the whole picture including clinical trials. Thus, PAVE fits into the concept of Enterprise. That is the message that needs to get out It is true that the distrust of the USG is enormous, but I do not think that I can cure that; I can only try to not make it worse and hopefully dispell it a bit. In any event, your idea about having Jose visit NIAID to raise the level of communication is an excellent one. I will communicate… **[2003-10-25T21:18:28] Ed Tramont:** Tony, We have already started a dialogue with Jose - he is going to be "stationed" in Washington. This "American takeover" stuff is a smoke screen, there is precious little money being put towards vaccines except for ours; Hence, - my suspicion is that they are angling to play Gates off against us. Ed **[2003-10-26T00:24:19] Margaret Johnston:** TOny, I concur. To my knowledge, we in NIAID have all been saying the same thing about PAVE and it's relationship to Enterprise, as you outlined in NYC. My take from Aerlie is that the next step would be writing "white papers" covering a range of topics. Shortly thereafter I received a draft list of papers and possible contributors and gave feedback to Helene. I have heard nothing and when I asked Helene for an update pre-HVTN meeting she admitted they were stretched thin and were waiting for Jose Esparza to join to really get things moving. So if Gates has moved foward to "set up committees" and has approached individuals for certain tasks/committees, that is news to me. There will be…