--- type: Conversation title: request for concurrence -gustav o. lienhard award -a. fauci description: "email conversation, 22 messages, 2021-02-05." tags: - conversation - email medium: email message_count: 22 started_at: "2021-02-05T05:51:00" ended_at: "2021-02-23T10:43:34" duration_seconds: 1572754 sources: - { id: fauci_awards, resource: /sources/fauci-awards.md, title: Fauci Awards Package (Redacted), author: "process:senate-hsgac-release", last_modified: 2026-07-24 } generated: { by: randpaul-corpus-pipeline/1.0, at: "2026-08-01T12:42:27Z" } status: stable --- A email conversation of 22 messages spanning 436h 52m. # Metadata - **Started:** 2021-02-05T05:51:00 - **Ended:** 2021-02-23T10:43:34 - **Duration:** 436h 52m - **Participants:** 10 - **Source:** [fauci_awards](/sources/fauci-awards.md) - **Pages:** 29-52 # Participants * [Gretchen Weaver](/people/gretchen-weaver.md) * Hall * Holli Beckerman * [Holli Beckerman Jaffe](/people/holli-beckerman-jaffe.md) * Jaffe * [Lawrence A. Tabak](/people/lawrence-a-tabak.md) * Randall * [Randall Hall](/people/randall-hall.md) * [Tara Schwetz](/people/tara-schwetz.md) # Transcript **[2021-02-05T05:51:00] Lawrence A. Tabak:** Mr. Hall, I write to request your concurrence that the exception to the gift prohibition at section 2635.204(d) does not prohibit Dr. Anthony Fauci from accepting the cash prize associated with the National Academy of Medicine's (NAM) 2020 Gustav O. Lienhard Award. Specifically, I ask you to find that: 1) the National Academies of Sciences (NAS), the umbrella organization under which NAM was established, is not a "person" under the regulations, and similarly, neither is NAM; or 2) if NAS is a "person," NAM and NAS are different "persons" because of NAM's independence from NAS; and/or 3) NAS is not a "person who can be substantially affected by the performance or nonperformance of [Dr.… **[2021-02-05T05:51:00] Lawrence A. Tabak:** Mr. Hall, I write to request your concurrence that the exception to the gift prohibition at section 2635.204(d) does not prohibit Dr. Anthony Fauci from accepting the cash prize associated with the National Academy of Medicine's (NAM) 2020 Gustav O. Lienhard Award. Specifically, I ask you to find that: 1) the National Academies of Sciences (NAS), the umbrella organization under which NAM was established, is not a "person" under the regulations, and similarly, neither is NAM; or 2) if NAS is a "person," NAM and NAS are different "persons" because of NAM's independence from NAS; and/or 3) NAS is not a "person who can be substantially affected by the performance or nonperformance of [Dr.… **[2021-02-05T05:51:00] Lawrence A. Tabak:** Mr. Hall, I write to request your concurrence that the exception to the gift prohibition at section 2635.204(d) does not prohibit Dr. Anthony Fauci from accepting the cash prize associated with the National Academy of Medicine's (NAM) 2020 Gustav O. Lienhard Award. Specifically, I ask you to find that: 1) the National Academies of Sciences (NAS), the umbrella organization under which NAM was established, is not a "person" under the regulations, and similarly, neither is NAM; or 2) if NAS is a "person," NAM and NAS are different "persons" because of NAM's independence from NAS; and/or 3) NAS is not a "person who can be substantially affected by the performance or nonperformance of [Dr.… **[2021-02-05T05:51:00] Lawrence A. Tabak:** Mr. Hall, I write to request your concurrence that the exception to the gift prohibition at section 2635.204(d) does not prohibit Dr. Anthony Fauci from accepting the cash prize associated with the National Academy of Medicine's (NAM) 2020 Gustav O. Lienhard Award. Specifically, I ask you to find that: 1) the National Academies of Sciences (NAS), the umbrella organization under which NAM was established, is not a "person" under the regulations, and similarly, neither is NAM; or 2) if NAS is a "person," NAM and NAS are different "persons" because of NAM's independence from NAS; and/or 3) NAS is not a "person who can be substantially affected by the performance or nonperformance of [Dr.… **[2021-02-05T05:51:00] Lawrence A. Tabak:** Mr. Hall, I write to request your concurrence that the exception to the gift prohibition at section 2635.204(d) does not prohibit Dr. Anthony Fauci from accepting the cash prize associated with the National Academy of Medicine's (NAM) 2020 Gustav O. Lienhard Award. Specifically, I ask you to find that: 1) the National Academies of Sciences (NAS), the umbrella organization under which NAM was established, is not a "person" under the regulations, and similarly, neither is NAM; or 2) if NAS is a "person," NAM and NAS are different "persons" because of NAM's independence from NAS; and/or 3) NAS is not a "person who can be substantially affected by the performance or nonperformance of [Dr.… **[2021-02-16T10:46:00] Gretchen Weaver:** Dr. Tabak: Good morning. As a quick update on the status of this item, Randy and I talked and we have forwarded your note to OGE with a request that they consider the questions presented. We will keep you apprised of what we hear. That said, we have no idea when to expect a response given that OGE is heavily involved in working to bring the Biden team members on board across the entire Executive Branch. We will, however, be checking in. I am not turning to focus on the Dan David Prize. Best, Gretchen Gretchen H. Weaver, J.D. Supervisory/Senior NIH Ethics Counsel DHHS/OGC/Ethics Division phone: fax: NOTICE: THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE FROM THE OFFICE OF THE GENERAL COUNSEL (OGC), ETHICS DIVISION IS… **[2021-02-16T10:46:00] Gretchen Weaver:** Dr. Tabak: Good morning. As a quick update on the status of this item, Randy and I talked and we have forwarded your note to OGE with a request that they consider the questions presented. We will keep you apprised of what we hear. That said, we have no idea when to expect a response given that OGE is heavily involved in working to bring the Biden team members on board across the entire Executive Branch. We will, however, be checking in. I am not turning to focus on the Dan David Prize. Best, Gretchen Gretchen H. Weaver, J.D. Supervisory/Senior NIH Ethics Counsel DHHS/OGC/Ethics Division phone: fax: NOTICE: THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE FROM THE OFFICE OF THE GENERAL COUNSEL (OGC), ETHICS DIVISION IS… **[2021-02-16T10:46:00] Gretchen Weaver:** Dr. Tabak: Good morning. As a quick update on the status of this item, Randy and I talked and we have forwarded your note to OGE with a request that they consider the questions presented. We will keep you apprised of what we hear. That said, we have no idea when to expect a response given that OGE is heavily involved in working to bring the Biden team members on board across the entire Executive Branch. We will, however, be checking in. I am now turning to focus on the Dan David Prize. Best, Gretchen Gretchen H. Weaver, J.D. Supervisory/Senior NIH Ethics Counsel DHHS/OGC/Ethics Division phone: fax: NOTICE: THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE FROM THE OFFICE OF THE GENERAL COUNSEL (OGC), ETHICS DIVISION IS… **[2021-02-16T10:46:00] Gretchen Weaver:** Dr. Tabak: Good morning. As a quick update on the status of this item, Randy and I talked and we have forwarded your note to OGE with a request that they consider the questions presented. We will keep you apprised of what we hear. That said, we have no idea when to expect a response given that OGE is heavily involved in working to bring the Biden team members on board across the entire Executive Branch. We will, however, be checking in. I am not turning to focus on the Dan David Prize. Best, Gretchen Gretchen H. Weaver, J.D. Supervisory/Senior NIH Ethics Counsel DHHS/OGC/Ethics Division phone: fax: NOTICE: THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE FROM THE OFFICE OF THE GENERAL COUNSEL (OGC), ETHICS DIVISION IS… **[2021-02-16T10:46:00] Gretchen Weaver:** Dr. Tabak: Good morning. As a quick update on the status of this item, Randy and I talked and we have forwarded your note to OGE with a request that they consider the questions presented. We will keep you apprised of what we hear. That said, we have no idea when to expect a response given that OGE is heavily involved in working to bring the Biden team members on board across the entire Executive Branch. We will, however, be checking in. I am not turning to focus on the Dan David Prize. Best, Gretchen Gretchen H. Weaver, J.D. Supervisory/Senior NIH Ethics Counsel DHHS/OGC/Ethics Division phone: fax: NOTICE: THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE FROM THE OFFICE OF THE GENERAL COUNSEL (OGC), ETHICS DIVISION IS… **[2021-02-16T11:01:52] Gretchen Weaver:** With apologies; I meant "now," not "not." Gretchen Gretchen H. Weaver, J.D. Supervisory/Senior NIH Ethics Counsel DHHS/OGC/Ethics Division phone: fax: NOTICE: THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE FROM THE OFFICE OF THE GENERAL COUNSEL (OGC), ETHICS DIVISION IS INTENDED FOR THE EXCLUSIVE USE OF THE RECIPIENT(S) NAMES ABOVE AND MAY CONTAIN PROTECTED, PRIVILEGED, OR CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION THAT SHOULD NOT BE TRANSMITTED TO UNAUTHORIZED ADDRESSEES. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, ANY DISSEMINATION, DISTRIBUTION, OR COPYING IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS E-MAIL IN ERROR, PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER IMMEDIATELY AT THE ABOVE ADDRESS. EMPLOYEE RECIPIENTS ARE COUNSELED THAT DISCIPLINARY… **[2021-02-18T16:47:00] Randall Hall:** Dr. Tabak: Good afternoon. This is to let you know that OGE has responded to our request to consider whether the gift rule exception for awards applies in the case of the Lienhard Award the NAM presented to Dr. Fauci. Unfortunately, OGE has concluded that the NASEM/NAM is/are a "person" under the government-wide rules restricting gifts from outside sources and that they are a person that can be "substantially affected by the performance or non-performance" of Dr. Fauci's duties. As a result, we are unable to change our prior determination that he cannot accept the $40,000 cash gift associated with the Lienhard Award. Please let us know if you have any questions. Randy Randall J. Hall… **[2021-02-18T16:47:00] Randall Hall:** Dr. Tabak: Good afternoon. This is to let you know that OGE has responded to our request to consider whether the gift rule exception for awards applies in the case of the Lienhard Award the NAM presented to Dr. Fauci. Unfortunately, OGE has concluded that the NASEM/NAM is/are a "person" under the government-wide rules restricting gifts from outside sources and that they are a person that can be "substantially affected by the performance or non-performance" of Dr. Fauci's duties. As a result, we are unable to change our prior determination that he cannot accept the $40,000 cash gift associated with the Lienhard Award. Please let us know if you have any questions. Randy Randall J. Hall… **[2021-02-18T16:47:00] Randall Hall:** Dr. Tabak: Good afternoon. This is to let you know that OGE has responded to our request to consider whether the gift rule exception for awards applies in the case of the Lienhard Award the NAM presented to Dr. Fauci. Unfortunately, OGE has concluded that the NASEM/NAM is/are a "person" under the government-wide rules restricting gifts from outside sources and that they are a person that can be "substantially affected by the performance or non-performance" of Dr. Fauci's duties. As a result, we are unable to change our prior determination that he cannot accept the $40,000 cash gift associated with the Lienhard Award. Please let us know if you have any questions. Randy Randall J. Hall… **[2021-02-18T16:47:00] Randall Hall:** Dr. Tabak: Good afternoon. This is to let you know that OGE has responded to our request to consider whether the gift rule exception for awards applies in the case of the Lienhard Award the NAM presented to Dr. Fauci. Unfortunately, OGE has concluded that the NASEM/NAM is/are a "person" under the government-wide rules restricting gifts from outside sources and that they are a person that can be "substantially affected by the performance or non-performance" of Dr. Fauci's duties. As a result, we are unable to change our prior determination that he cannot accept the $40,000 cash gift associated with the Lienhard Award. Please let us know if you have any questions. Randy Randall J. Hall… **[2021-02-18T18:48:00] Lawrence A. Tabak:** Not surprising...but not a good conversation to have with ASF.... **[2021-02-19T00:58:45] Tara Schwetz:** Inline-Images: image001.png It was worth a try... Best, Tara A. Schwetz, PhD Associate Deputy Director, NIH A: P: I M: cidimage001.png@01D639B9.FBF9 **[2021-02-22T15:27:00] Gretchen Weaver:** My apologies; I thought you were copied on Randy's note to Larry. Please see below. I am forwarding the string that went. Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks, Gretchen Gretchen H. Weaver, J.D. Supervisory/Senior NIH Ethics Counsel DHHS/OGC/Ethics Division phone: fax: NOTICE: THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE FROM THE OFFICE OF THE GENERAL COUNSEL (OGC), ETHICS DIVISION IS INTENDED FOR THE EXCLUSIVE USE OF THE RECIPIENT(S) NAMES ABOVE AND MAY CONTAIN PROTECTED, PRIVILEGED, OR CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION THAT SHOULD NOT BE TRANSMITTED TO UNAUTHORIZED ADDRESSEES. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, ANY DISSEMINATION, DISTRIBUTION, OR COPYING IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS… **[2021-02-22T15:41:00] Holli Beckerman Jaffe:** Gretchen shared that OGE disagreed with our argument, and upheld OGC's determination that Tony cannot receive the cash prize associated with NAM award. Do you want me to draft an email to Tony for you? **[2021-02-22T15:57:00] Lawrence A. Tabak:** Yes please. Have we received any good news to temper this with? **[2021-02-22T16:03:11] Holli Beckerman Jaffe:** I asked before I wrote you. No good news, but no bad news either. Gretchen reviewed the Dan David package and has some follow up questions about the events surrounding the prize, i.e., award ceremony and symposia. If they are the same as in past years (likely yes except this year's events will be virtual), then approval should be forthcoming. **[2021-02-23T10:43:34] Holli Beckerman Jaffe:** Had you sent Tony a copy of the request to OGE? If not, do you think it is worth sharing it with him now? While it wasn't successful, it was a big and difficult effort. Perhaps he'll appreciate it. I suggested language with and without forwarding your email to Randy. Tony, I write to inform you of the final decision regarding the cash prize associated with NAM's Lienhard Award. Unfortunately, we were not successful in our appeal. While you can accept the honor of being named the 2020 Lienhard awardee, you may not receive the cash. 1) For you information, below is the lengthy and detailed argument . . . or 2) We presented a lengthy and detailed argument first to HHS's Office of the General…